A pumpkin is just one variety of squash.Is there any difference in your experience between a squash and a pumpkin?
is squash a more general term? is a pumpkin necessarily round?
I did not notice that, but it is odd as pumpkin and squash are synonyms. Squash (cucurbita) includes zucchini (Cucurbita pepo)
Sure, common, real language!.We are, however, talking about language here, not taxonomy. There is no way on God's green earth that anybody in North America would confuse a pumpkin with a zucchini.
Also in the same article:
Some squash that are considered to be pumpkins are not cultivars of the same species as zucchini.Pumpkin is the fruit of the species Cucurbita pepo or Cucurbita mixta. It can refer to a specific variety of the species Cucurbita maxima or Cucurbita moschata, which are all of the genus Cucurbita and the family Cucurbitaceae.
Back to the beginningI did not notice that, but it is odd as pumpkin and squash are synonyms. Squash (cucurbita) includes zucchini (Cucurbita pepo)
I started the thread to check whether people are aware that zucchini are pumpkins.
pumpkin/squash / gourd ( genus: Cucurbita and Lagenaria) vs. zucchini (Cucurbita pepo species) is like citrus (genus) vs. lemmon/orange/cedar etc (species)A pumpkin is a pumpkin and a zucchini is a zucchini regardless of scientific classification. Cultivars of the same species (like breeds of dogs) can vary greatly.
You are right, (wiki , not taxonomy is confusing) that article is a mess: Cucurbita is a genus and Cucurbita Pepo is a species as you can read under the pictureTaxonomy can be confusing
"The species Cucurbita pepo is a cultivated plant of the species Cucurbita pepo ssp. fraterna and another Cucurbita species. It includes varieties of squash, gourd, and pumpkin. It is approved for treatment of prostate disorders in Germany."
Hi, RM1(SS)Kindly explain how you arrived at this peculiar conclusion.
!. Throwing around generalities, such as "any gardener" to support a hopeless argument is usually not productive.But I have grown them since childhood and I know, as any gardener, that zucchini (= piccola zucca [little/ baby pumpkins] in Italian it is plural), courgette (petit courge [little pumpkin]) are just a species of pumpkin which are usually eaten before they reach full growth, but, if you let them grow they become regular pumpkins.
Hi Julian, please , don't shoot the pianist , relata refero!Using terms currently used in the English-speaking world (not based on any words currently used in Italian):...
Zucchini are not a species of pumpkin. Zucchini are a species in the genus Cucurbita, and so are pumpkins, and so are many gourds. .
I find your edited quotes from the dictionaries confusing. I found some straightforward unedited ones from this Oxford dictionaryI started the thread to check whether people are aware that zucchini are pumpkins.
.zucchini noun (plural same or zucchinis)North American
a green variety of smooth-skinned summer squash
None of the native English speakers who responded agree with the assertion that "zucchini are pumpkins". The descriptions from the dictionaries for the two are different (in bold above). The descriptions from the members are different. Most of the responders are from the US but the two who are not also disagree. None of us use the term "pumpkin" as a general word to cover the genus Cucurbita. So we are "aware that zucchini are not pumpkins".pumpkin noun
1a large rounded orange-yellow fruit with a thick rind, edible flesh, and many seeds.
informal used as an affectionate term of address, especially to a child.
2the plant of the gourd family that produces the pumpkin, having tendrils and large lobed leaves and native to warm regions of America.
Genus Cucurbita, family Cucurbitaceae: several species, in particular C. pepo
I think what's happening is that you've confused "squash" and "pumpkin." A "pumpkin" is a kind of "squash," but not all "squash" are "pumpkins." In American English, "squash" is the term for the whole class of vegetables (zucchini, pumpkins, squash) and "pumpkin" is the term for a sub-variety.The marrow, full grown or baby marrow (AmE= zucchini) is a pumpkin (it was even given first choice in the dictionary), zucchini is a baby pumpkin
a full-grown marrow is an egg-shaped pumpkin, it gradually loses its taste, then gets a disgusting taste then in a few months (before Christmas) becomes an empty, fragile shell full of seeds good for sowing , as any gardener knows.
Thats why it is eaten when it is small, that is why it is called summer squash.
My sense is that this is difficult for Europeans to grasp because, quite simply, pumpkins are vanishingly rare in Europe, while they are a huge part of American culture. Pumpkins are the things we carve into Jack-o-Lanterns at Halloween, and the things that make the pie we eat at Thanksgiving. They are a very specific, and culturally distinct, portion of the general category of "squash."The marrow, full grown or baby marrow (AmE= zucchini) is a squash (it was even given first choice in the dictionary), zucchini is a baby squash
a full-grown marrow is an egg-shaped squash, it gradually loses its taste, then gets a disgusting taste then in a few months (before Christmas) becomes an empty, fragile shell full of seeds good for sowing , as any gardener knows.
Thanks a lot , PaulQ, I am beginning to see a lightAll pumpkins are squashes, but not all squashes are pumpkins.
There are people who will lazily and informally refer to anything that resembles a pumpkin (externally and/or internally) as a pumpkin; avoid this, especially when shopping for food.
Does that seem reasonable to you? Do you think wolves, jackals, coyotes, and all breeds of dogs are equivalent?From SOED and even infamous Wiki I got the idea that dog is a more technical term (hunting/working) dogs, used by dog-shows and by biologists to name animals, and that chihuahua was a more common, ordinary-people term and is used less frequently in the names of the animals.
But according to taxonomy they are equivalent as they refer to all species in the genus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canis.
Thanks, Paul, of course in practice I do that, and I confessed I learned only researching for this post that zucchini (Cucurbita pepo) is just a squash (or pumpkin).I therefore suggest that you follow their practice avoid meaning (ii) and use squash as the term for the family of gourds and pumpkin for the pie ingredient.
What about UK, would anybody know that squash is pumpkin?Nobody in the U.s. would know you were talking about a pumpkin if you said 'squash."
I you quote me , you should quote me right:... Do you think wolves, jackals, coyotes, and all breeds of dogs are equivalent?
Your aunt was right as gourd is a hypernym (family), but it includes also cucumbers, melons etc. which are not squashes. Not all gourds ar squashes.But,My aunt used to grow gourds at one time for their decorative appearance, and she referred (correctly) to all squashes as 'gourds'...
You're smart Paul,, I have done that game before a started the thread, but the problem is that if you type "squash" you get mostly gyms.I've done the experiment and you owe me $1,016 and I owe you nothing...)
Monalisa, we all "deny that squash is a pumpkin." Every single one of us.Your aunt was right as gourd is a hypernym (family), but it includes also cucumbers, melons etc. which are not squashes. Not all gourds ar squashes.But,
Please correct me if I am wrong : all zucchini(s) are (summer) squashes ergo all zucchini are squashes
You're smart Paul,, I have done that game before a started the thread, but the problem is that if you type "squash" you get mostly gyms.
But the single Buttercup squash gets some 80 000 hits and if you look at the pictures (https://www.google.it/search?q=%22buttercup%20squash%22&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.50500085,d.bGE,pv.xjs.s.en_US.ciY8R2R6XC8.O&biw=1241&bih=593&hl=it&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=rTEKUsDzNsXf4QTNtYG4Dg)
can anyone deny that that squash is a pumpkin allright?
I can only speak for myself. I would have said to myself, "They are related". Pumpkin is not popular in the UK. My only contact with it is via those young people who have adopted the American custom of Halloween. Squash rarely appears on our plates. I imagine that this lack of popularity affects people's grasp of the relationship between these two vegetables.What about UK, would anybody know that squash is pumpkin?
I suppose the do not grow in UK, as they require at least 6 months of heat, we plant them at the end of April and harvest them at the end of October.I can only speak for myself. I would have said to myself, "They are related". Pumpkin is not popular in the UK. .
That is interesting and odd, Kate, as all images refer to the same fruit : the buttercup squash. Could you tell us which fruits are not pumpkins, are they more numerous than the pumpkins ? And more than anything , (that would give us a clue, at last) what is the standard, the criterion you use to decide?Some of those images you linked to are pumpkins, as far as I can tell, but some are not.
You said all things in the same GENUS are equivalent, therefore jackals and chihuahuas are exactly the same thing. I can trade your pet for a jackal and you would never notice the difference. I would never say that chihuahuas and poodles are equivalent and they are different breeds within the same subspecies (three levels down from genus and they are not the same thing). You're also ignoring the fact that not all the things that we call "pumpkin" are cultivars of the species Curcubita pepo. There is not a one-to-one relationship between pumpkin and species.I you quote me , you should quote me right:
Canis is a genus (like Cucurbita = squash= pumpkin) and dog a species Canls Lupus (familiaris ssp.) (like Cucurbita Pepo = zucchini). If you want to make a comparison then I think all breeds of dog is a canis