Steek

[rushalaim]

As far as I know, Dutch "steek" just means a "knot". Russian got nautical knots from Dutch. Thus, Dutch "steek" became Russian "shtyk" ("штык"). But English distinguishes between a "knot" and "hitch". It's strange, though Russian "shtyk" was taken from Dutch "steek" ("knot") but means today "hitch" in Russian. Does Dutch distinguish between "knot" and "hitch"?

 

[Peterdg]

"Steek" in Dutch has many meanings but in actual Dutch, it does not mean "knot", except in shipping, but that is a very technical term: I had to look it up in the dictionary and I guess 99% of the people wouldn't know that it is also a knot.

Second, I didn't know what was meant by a hitch in English in relation to a knot; I looked it up in wikipedia and apparently it is a type of knot used to attach a rope to an object. We don't have a special word for that in Dutch; all of them are called "knoop (singular)/knopen(plural)".

 

[ThomasK]

I think PeterDG is right. I did remember from a long time ago a word like "vlaggensteek", though I did not remember the technicalities. My specialties were "platte knoop" and "mastworp" - and the former still proves useful. More info? Look here. You will find quite some "steken" there....

 

[rushalaim]

"Steek" in Dutch has many meanings but in actual Dutch, it does not mean "knot", except in shipping, but that is a very technical term: I had to look it up in the dictionary and I guess 99% of the people wouldn't know that it is also a knot.

Second, I didn't know what was meant by a hitch in English in relation to a knot; I looked it up in wikipedia and apparently it is a type of knot used to attach a rope to an object. We don't have a special word for that in Dutch; all of them are called "knoop (singular)/knopen(plural)".

Russian also has many meanings for "shtyk" but hardly any common man knows that that is a kind of a knot. English destinguishes - a "knot" keeps its form by itself but "hitch" looses its form after taking off from an object (according to The Book of Knots of Ashley). It's interesting, does Dutch distinguish (or old Dutch) between those meanings?

 

[rushalaim]

I think PeterDG is right. I did remember from a long time ago a word like "vlaggensteek", though I did not remember the technicalities. My specialties were "platte knoop" and "mastworp" - and the former still proves useful. More info? Look here. You will find quite some "steken" there....

"Vlaggensteek" is apparently "Sheet Bend" in English.

 

[rushalaim]

What is the pronunciation of [stek] or [shtek]? Did old Dutch "steek" differ from modern pronunciation?

 

[ThomasK]

I do not think it has ever been pronounced in another way than [ste:k]. You see? That is the [e:] that we refer to as a "long e"...

 

[Red Arrow]

Dutch lacks the phoneme /sh/. Russians could have confused Dutch /s/ with one of their /sh/.

The Russian pronunciation could also be influenced by German.

 

[ThomasK]

Not sure whether it lacks /sh/. Don't we have in diminutives like meisje?

 

[Red Arrow]

Not sure whether it lacks /sh/. Don't we have in diminutives like meisje?

Only in dialects with suffix -sje. (like Standard Dutch) Even then, sj is [sh] phonetically, but phonemically, it is /s + j/.

Steek looks like one of those Dutch words that got into Russian via sailors. I don't know what dialect or accent they had, but if it looked like the current Hollandic accent, then every S and Z could easily be confused with /sh/.

 

[ThomasK]

That might be true...

 

[rushalaim]

Dutch lacks the phoneme /sh/. Russians could have confused Dutch /s/ with one of their /sh/.

The Russian pronunciation could also be influenced by German.

There are some old Russian dialects what are pronouncing for instance "babuska" instead of modern Russian TV language "babushka". I don't know what caused that change s > sh. It's hardly from Germans )) Russian marine language definitely from Dutch, for example "kneht" (knecht), "kil" (kiel), "shturwal" (stuur).