sub invigorositate actus secus instituendi

Vladimir Nimčević

Senior Member
Serbian
Quemadmodum Debitorum Intabulatio porro quoque Conformitate Legis penes Comitatum permanebit, ita vetitum esse volumus, ne Fundorum sub Onere publico constitutorum Venditiones, Emptiones, Cambiationes, Oppignorationes absque debita apud Magistratum Oppidanum Insinuatione, illicque procuranda Improtocollatione sub Invigorositate Actus secus instituendi fiant

Here is one more hard to understand extract from the Latin document. I understand the part saying the monarch wants to prevent illegal manipulations with sequestered lands from happening, but I am not sure what he means by sub Invigorositate actus secus instituendi. I tried to help myself by translating it literally (under the disempowerment of a different arrangement of the act), but the translation made no sense.
 
  • Sobakus

    Senior Member
    Yeah, no ancient roman would understand this that's for sure :D

    I'll try to translate this into normalspeak: Vetitum esse placet, nē fundī pūblicī vēndantur etc. Sīn autem tālis āctūs īnstituendus erit, litterās (= imprōtocollātiōnem) apud Magistrātum Oppidānum prōcūrātō quae litterae eum āctum irritum īnfectumque dēclārent.

    The phrase you single out literally means "accompanied by an official record of the invalidity of the deed to be enacted otherwise".
     

    Vladimir Nimčević

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    So it goes with the part absque debita apud Magistratum Oppidanum Insinuatione, illicque procuranda Improtocollatione after all.

    I was about to start believing it by myself, but I could not find another way of expressing the essence of the sentence. The most important part is providing a legal document from the city council that nullifies a different arrangement of the deed (venditiones, emptiones etc.)
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    I think absque debita apud Magistratum Oppidanum modifies the restriction on all of the above: "except if these are due to the town's magistrate". I don't think I have the legal understanding to make sense of it though :rolleyes:
     

    Vladimir Nimčević

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    Doesn't "absque debita apud Magistratum Oppidanum insinuatione, illicque procuranda improtocolatione (...) actus" mean "without the due publication and registration of the act provided by the city council"?
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    Yeah, actually it does. Then - after a bit of googling for "sub invigorositate" (with quotes) - it looks like sub Invigorositate Actus secus instituendi fiant gives the legal reason under which these deals are to be considered void: "void due to an improper arrangement of the deal". Although this means the sentence is grammatically confused: it conflates volumus ABC fīant and volumus ut ABC sub invigōrōsitāte fīant into one clause with nē. Literally it would mean that it's forbidden for them to be void under that legal reason.
     
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    Vladimir Nimčević

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    Yeah, actually it does. Then - after a bit of googling for "sub invigorositate" (with quotes) - it looks like sub Invigorositate Actus secus instituendi fiant gives the legal reason under which these deals are to be considered void: "void due to an improper arrangement of the deal". Although this means the sentence is grammatically confused: it conflates volumus ABC fīant and volumus ut ABC sub invigōrōsitāte fīant into one clause with nē. Literally it would mean that it's forbidden for them to be void under that legal reason.
    About ne-ut: Yes, that is nothing unnatural. After all that is the 19th century Latin.

    I have seen that before.

    If fiant goes with sub Invigorositate, what goes with Venditiones, Emptiones, Cambiationes and Oppignorationes?
     

    Vladimir Nimčević

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    So If I understand you well, you suggest the translation sounds something like:

    The purchase, sale, replacement and mortgage of sequestrated estates, without a proper publication and registration provided by the town council are to be nullified as an improper (secus) arrangement of the (purchase, selling etc.) deal.
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    Yes, your translation agrees with my understanding, and I think you've nailed it with sub poenā - this must be the grammatical source at least; except there's no threat or penalty, there's a provision, like in "under the law".
     

    Vladimir Nimčević

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    U tom grmu leži zec! / That's the catch. :) / Sub poena ≈ sub invigorositate. It took me some time to realize that invigorositas could go just another way of saying sub poena invigorositatis. You can even find the phrase on Google

    He forbids the citizens of the town from buying, selling, purchasing and mortgaging sequestrated estates under penalty of annulling such a deal as invalid, improper, against the law.
     
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