Subjunctive doubts

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ALEX1981X

Banned
Italian
Hello everybody...

I'm struggling with some sentences with the Subjunctive (maybe Indicative)


MY main doubt is this:

1) I hoped (in the past) you came at the party
2) I hoped (that) you would come at the party
3) I wished (felt the desire in the past) I received more gifts last Christmas
4)I wished to receive more gifts last Christmas..

In your sight, Do you think these sentences are all grammatically correct ?? :)

N.s: Bear in mind that the desire and hope was felt in the past not now


Thanks
 
  • Martinoguy

    New Member
    English-Southern American
    To be honest, Subjunctive in English is very uncommon unlike Spanish or Italian.

    1. I had hoped that you would have come to the party
    2. I hope that you came to the party
    3. I wished that I had recieved more gifts last Christmas
    4.I wish I recieved more gifts last Christmas.

    Are my best guesses.

    Again, Subjunctive in English occurs very infrequently in favor of other tenses.
     

    kalamazoo

    Senior Member
    US, English
    I hoped that you would come to the party (note "to" the party).

    I wished I had received more gifts.
     

    AlabamaBoy

    Senior Member
    American English
    Since you explain that the desire occurred in the past, I agree with kalamazoo. The subjunctive in English can not be compared to that in Romance languages such as Italian.
     

    Martinoguy

    New Member
    English-Southern American
    1. I had hoped that you would have come to the party (Note that "have" seems a little redundant or unnecessary here. Since simpler is better, I would eliminate it.)
    2. I hope that you came to the party:cross: This is wrong because your hope occurred in the past and this sentence makes the hope in the present.
    3. I wished that I had received more gifts last Christmas
    4.I wish I received more gifts last Christmas.:cross: This is wrong because your wish occurred in the past and this sentence makes the wish in the present.
    I appreciate you "correcting" my sentences, but I beg to differ and state that the first sentence is well formed, and though cumbersome it expresses a pluperfect idea.

    I did not see where the OP wished for the wish itself to be in the past, and for that yes 2 and 4 are wrong, but commonly in romantic languages a wish can be in the present but still require the past subjunctive, which is what I was trying to represent.
     
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    ALEX1981X

    Banned
    Italian
    Guys and Alabama you have taken the wrong sequence of sentences ;)

    These are mine :

    1) I hoped (in the past) you came at the party
    2) I hoped (that) you would come at the party
    3) I wished (felt the desire in the past) I received more gifts last Christmas
    4) I wished to receive more gifts last Christmas..


    If I said "I thought you were my son" would it be correct ?..

    So why "I hoped you came...etc" must be considered wrong ? :confused:
     

    Martinoguy

    New Member
    English-Southern American
    You would be correct in saying "I thought you were my son" as it implies that the thought itself has changed in the present.

    "I thought You were my son, but now I know that you are not"

    when you say, "I thought" it implies that you now realize differently, whereas a hope is more of a state that cannot be changed. Therefore, a hope in the past must be accompanied commonly with either a pluperfect or a past conditional clause.

    "I hoped that you had come to the party" to talk about a hope as a fact in the past ( whether or not you came to the party is irrelevant)

    or

    "I hoped that you would have come to the party" to talk about a hope in the past which implies that you did not come to the party.


    To make "I hoped" a clause that changes in the present like "I thought" requires a progressive clause such as

    "I was hoping that you were going to come to the party, but now I hope that you do not"
     
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    JamesM

    Senior Member
    If I said "I thought you were my son" would it be correct ?..

    So why "I hoped you came...etc" must be considered wrong ? :confused:
    Well, it's an odd construction. If someone came to a party (that presumably you gave) it would be very odd for you not to know that they came.

    "I hoped you came to the party" sounds like you hoped at some point in the past that the person actually showed up at the party (in the more distant past) and that you were unaware of it. It's difficult to imagine such a scenario. Even then it should be: "I hoped that you had come to the party."

    The person either came to the party or didn't come, so it's odd to picture the hope extending beyond the time the party was given. The only scene that makes sense is that the person hoped the other person would come to the party and that hope was disappointed when the person didn't show up. The speaker knew at that point that the other person wasn't coming.

    With that as the background, I would say (assuming the party was in the past):

    "I had hoped you would have come to the party", as Martinoguy suggested, because your hope ended when the party was given and the person didn't show up.

    If the party is still in the future:

    A:"Will you come to the party?"
    B: "No, I'm afraid not."
    A: "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I had hoped that you would come to the party."

    (In casual conversation A might also say: "I was hoping that you would come to the party.")

    If we were dealing with something besides coming to a party the answer might be a little different.
     
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