subjunctive/is/was/for + to infinitive

Gabriel Malheiros

Senior Member
Portuguese - Brazil
Hello, guys

I would like to know which sentence I should use in the following case:

"It is odd for a gunshot victim's funeral to be held with an open casket"
or
"It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral is held with an open casket"
or
"It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral be held with an open casket"
or
"It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral was held with an open casket"


Should I use 'for + object + to infintive", or subjunctive, or "is", or "was"? Which sentence is correct?

Thank you so much
 
  • PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    I don't think so, (a) it could be "would" (b) 'be' is a correct use of the subjunctive.
     

    Englishmypassion

    Senior Member
    India - Hindi
    I don't think so, (a) it could be "would" (b) 'be' is a correct use of the subjunctive.[/QUOTE

    Thank you. Is it natural to use the subjunctive "be" alone with "It is odd that" (though using the subjunctive is common with "It is recommended/suggested/proposed, etc.)?
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    Yes. Velisarius mentioned this the other day - she explained that it is the analytical subjunctive - the person saying "It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral be held with an open casket" is musing on the strangeness or finds it surprising.
     

    Englishmypassion

    Senior Member
    India - Hindi
    Yes. Velisarius mentioned this the other day - she explained that it is the analytical subjunctive - the person saying "It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral be held with an open casket" is musing on the strangeness or finds it surprising.

    Thank you very much. Much obliged.
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    Yes. Velisarius mentioned this the other day - she explained that it is the analytical subjunctive - the person saying "It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral be held with an open casket" is musing on the strangeness or finds it surprising.
    :confused:I hope I wasn't suggesting the other day that "be" is anything other than the ordinary present subjunctive.

    I think that a construction like "It's odd that it should be held..." or "It was odd that he should have been held..." is sometimes described as the "analytical subjunctive". I think it's useful term for this construction that is so often used in BE in preference to the "synthetic subjunctive". Alternatively I suppose we may call it "the 'should' subjunctive".

    Edit: "It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral be held with an open casket" - I wouldn't use the present subjunctive here. I don't feel the need to use the subjunctive after "it's odd that...", but I could happily use "It's odd that it should be..."

    There is also the term "putative/attitudinal 'should'", which I think applies to this example.
     
    Last edited:

    Gabriel Malheiros

    Senior Member
    Portuguese - Brazil
    Yes. Velisarius mentioned this the other day - she explained that it is the analytical subjunctive - the person saying "It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral be held with an open casket" is musing on the strangeness or finds it surprising.
    :confused:I hope I wasn't suggesting the other day that "be" is anything other than the ordinary present subjunctive.

    I think that a construction like "It's odd that it should be held..." or "It was odd that he should have been held..." is sometimes described as the "analytical subjunctive". I think it's useful term for this construction that is so often used in BE in preference to the "synthetic subjunctive". Alternatively I suppose we may call it "the 'should' subjunctive".

    Edit: "It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral be held with an open casket" - I wouldn't use the present subjunctive here. I don't feel the need to use the subjunctive after "it's odd that...", but I could happily use "It's odd that it should be..."

    There is also the term "putative/attitudinal 'should'", which I think applies to this example.

    But and with "is"? Is "It's odd that a gunshot victim's funeral is held with an open casket" frown upon?
     

    e2efour

    Senior Member
    UK English
    I can't resist joining with others and saying that the following sentence is totally wrong in BE:

    "It is odd that a gunshot victim's funeral be held with an open casket".
     
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