such as it is

vali00

New Member
Italy, Rome
Qualcuno può aiutarmi con questa frase?

"Ok, I take your point - such as it is"
"OK, prendo atto del tuo punto di vista .... :confused: "
Grazie!
 
  • Apollo2015

    New Member
    Canada - English
    Non si dice "ok... per quel che vale"? Meaning for what it's worth.

    "Ok, I take your point - such as it is"

    Ok, acceto il tuo punto,
    com'è presentato
    com'è
    per quel che vale

    ... a mio parere. Ma non sono italiano, allora è probabile che sia in errore. :)
     
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    Mashi

    Member
    Italian
    Credo che Apollo e Murphy possano avere ragione. "Per quel che vale", "per quello che è" sono entrambe valide. Però l'espressione such as it is può tradurre anche l'italiano "per modo di dire". Io direi che la scelta dipende dal contesto e dalla relazione tra chi parla e la persona del cui punto di vista si parla. Se per esempio mi sta sulle scatole la persona X direi, "Bene, prendo atto del tuo punto di vista, se così si può definire"
     
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    beccamutt

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Credo che Apollo e Murphy possano avere ragione. "Per quel che vale", "per quello che è" sono entrambe valide. Però l'espressione such as it is può tradurre anche l'italiano "per modo di dire". Io direi che la scelta dipende dal contesto e dalla relazione tra chi parla e la persona del cui punto di vista si parla.

    Io non avrei tradotto such as it is as per modo di dire, ma forse non so precisamente cosa vuol dire. Per modo di dire = per dire (piu' o meno)?
     

    vmx79

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Per quel che vale sarebbe la traduzione che calza meglio. Però ha un significato leggermente negativo.... Ovvero: "anche se ha poco valore", "anche se ha poca importanza". A questo punto dal contesto si potrebbe capire se ad avere poca importanza è l'opinione dell'altro (che tu stai accettando) o il tuo essere disponibile ad accettare la sua opinione...
     

    Mashi

    Member
    Italian
    Però questo non è la stessa cosa. "Such as it is" è simile a "for what it's worth", come ha già detto Appollo2015 ;)

    Just to clarify my ideas, so how would you translate a headline like "Rainy season, such as it is, arrives in Iraq" considering that we are talking about a semi-desertic climate? Thanks in advance.
     
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    Veledan

    Senior Member
    English - BE
    "Such as it is" belittles the noun it comes after. It's definitely negative. "I agree with your point, such as it is" means I don't object to what you said, but what you said was obvious, meaningless, or otherwise irrelevant/unimportant.

    "Rainy season, such as it is, arrives in Iraq" means it's the rainiest part of the year in Iraq but that that doesn't mean much: they still don't get much rain.

    Come la tradurresti in italiano?

    Vel
     

    Mashi

    Member
    Italian
    "Such as it is" belittles the noun it comes after. It's definitely negative.

    That was my feeling: a kind of detachment, of not sharing the same point of view.

    "Rainy season, such as it is, arrives in Iraq" means it's the rainiest part of the year in Iraq but that that doesn't mean much: they still don't get much rain.

    Come la tradurresti in italiano?

    Vel

    If you are asking me, i would translate it as "La stagione delle piogge, per così dire, arriva in Iraq"
     

    GavinW

    Senior Member
    British English
    Would "in quanto tale' or "come tale" work?

    La stagione delle piogge, in quanto tale, arriva in Iraq.

    No, sorry, that's different. It's a tricky one to translate/explain, but "in quanto tale" is basically "inasmuch as it is (indeed) [rainy, or whatever]". In other words, it doesn't restrict the noun it qualifies (unlike "such as it is", which definitely imposes such a limit), it restates the identity of the noun it refers to (OK, I didn't explain that very well... You would need examples in Italian, for which a good Italian monolingual would also help you...).
     

    Apollo2015

    New Member
    Canada - English
    The funny thing is, I believe that everyone has some right in what they are saying; it simply depends on what point you are trying to make.

    The heading "Rainy season, such as it is, comes to Iraq" is a form of sarcasm. Therefore, the "per quel che vale" can be appropriate since the entire point of the "such as it is" is to play off of the fact that they don't really get much rain at all. The negativism is not directed at a person or a point of view (speaking specifically of the heading) and only belittles the fact of the so-called "rainy season" coming to the desert.

    I believe that, if I am understanding the meaning properly, you would want to use "per quel che vale" to maintain the same tone and the impression that the author is trying to give.


    Ma, come l'ho già detto, non sono un vero italiano; sono un impostore! haha
     

    Necsus

    Senior Member
    Italian (Italy)
    Just to clarify my ideas, so how would you translate a headline like "Rainy season, such as it is, arrives in Iraq" considering that we are talking about a semi-desertic climate? Thanks in advance.

    "Rainy season, such as it is, arrives in Iraq" means it's the rainiest part of the year in Iraq but that that doesn't mean much: they still don't get much rain.
    Come la tradurresti in italiano?
    I agree with giovannino's 'se così la si può definire'.
    Otherwise you can simply say 'la cosiddetta/presunta/supposta stagione delle piogge'. Or, if you have no problem of length, you can say 'la stagione delle piogge, (tale) più di nome che di fatto'. :);)
     

    pask46

    Senior Member
    Italy-italian
    In my (humble) opinion...

    "I take your point-such as it is"
    is quite neutral...
    in Italian, to me, is just:
    "Prendo atto di quel che dici/del tuo punto di vista/parere così come me lo dici/ così com'è"

    while translating the sentence with "per quel che vale" implies a negative judgement: "your point is not so important".

    On the other hand I really can get the meaning of "Rainy season, such as it is, arrives in Iraq" as ironical... and will translate it with "la stagione delle piogge, se così si può definire, arriva in Iraq..." in this case a simple "così com'è" will not render the implied irony.

    So, to shorten, it... I agree with all the translations, but not with the first ("per quel che vale", in vali00 first examples) that, to me, diminishes the value of the object.

    Check this, also: "Per quel che vale" could be used to show modesty and humility...
    "ti dico la mia opinione, per quel che vale"
    "hai tutta la mia approvazione, per quel che vale"
    "per quel che vale (il mio parere), a me il tuo lavoro piace"

    Just my two cents...
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    In my (humble) opinion...

    "I take your point-such as it is"
    is quite neutral...I don't agree. ;)

    In mine, it's negative, it sounds sarcastic to me! I like Giovannino's "se così la si può definire".
    in Italian, to me, is just:
    "Prendo atto di quel che dici/del tuo punto di vista/parere così come me lo dici/ così com'è" I don't think so....

    On the other hand I really can get the meaning of "Rainy season, such as it is, arrives in Iraq" as ironical... and will translate it with "la stagione delle piogge, se così si può definire, arriva in Iraq..." in this case a simple "così com'è" will not render the implied irony. They both sound the same to me: ironic!

    Check this, also: "Per quel che vale" could be used to show modesty and humility...Yes, we say "for what it's worth" and we use it in the same way as you do in Italian, to express humility (true or false as it may be!).

    "ti dico la mia opinione, per quel che vale" I'll tell you what I think, for what it's worth
    "hai tutta la mia approvazione, per quel che vale" You have my total approval, for what it's worth
    "per quel che vale (il mio parere), a me il tuo lavoro piace" In my opinion, for what it's worth, you have a great job
     

    Murphy

    Senior Member
    English, UK
    In my (humble) opinion...

    "I take your point-such as it is"
    is quite neutral...
    in Italian, to me, is just:
    "Prendo atto di quel che dici/del tuo punto di vista/parere così come me lo dici/ così com'è"

    while translating the sentence with "per quel che vale" implies a negative judgement: "your point is not so important".



    So, to shorten, it... I agree with all the translations, but not with the first ("per quel che vale", in vali00 first examples) that, to me, diminishes the value of the object.
    Però, questo è esattamente il tono di "such as it is". E' un modo di dire che sminuisce quello che è stato detto prima. Quando uno dice "I take your point, such as it is", vuol dire che quel punto non ha, comunque, molto valore.
    :)
     
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    pask46

    Senior Member
    Italy-italian
    Hi LC!

    Maybe it's the contexct, but I still don't get the irony in the same way for both examples... or it's just that I'm not native!:(

    So a more neutral way to say "così com'è" could be eliminating "such"?
    I mean... "I take your point as it is"... "prendo quel che mi dici così com'è"?

    Is it?
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Maybe it's the contexct, but I still don't get the irony in the same way for both examples... or it's just that I'm not native!:( Yes, we're a bit more sensitive, if you see what I mean!:D (And I don't mean "sensitivi"!:D).

    So a more neutral way to say "così com'è" could be eliminating "such"?
    I mean... "I take your point as it is"... "prendo quel che mi dici così com'è"?

    Is it?
    Actually, I think I'd probably say "I take your point" and leave it at that! "As it is"/"as it stands" are unnecessary, in my opinion, although they're perfectly feasible from a grammatical viewpoint and are probably used!
     

    Murphy

    Senior Member
    English, UK
    Credo che un madrelingua inglese non aggiungerebbe niente se volesse semplicemente accettare il punto di vista dell'altro.

    A. I think XYZ!
    B. Yes, I take your point.
     
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    Apollo2015

    New Member
    Canada - English
    haha I think it's rather interesting that most are still seemingly debating the issue of the "I take your point" since I believe the more important question is with "The rainy season".

    Again, I really don't believe the author of "The rainy season" was being neutral at all. I believe they are clearly mocking what is to be called a "rainy season" in a desert climate.
     

    pask46

    Senior Member
    Italy-italian
    haha I think it's rather interesting that most are still seemingly debating the issue of the "I take your point" since I believe the more important question is with "The rainy season".

    Again, I really don't believe the author of "The rainy season" was being neutral at all. I believe they are clearly mocking what is to be called a "rainy season" in a desert climate.

    I got "the rainy" immediatly, but still flounder with "I take your point"...
    weird, huh?
    It's a matter of sensitiveness...:)D)
     

    london calling

    Senior Member
    UK English
    haha I think it's rather interesting that most are still seemingly debating the issue of the "I take your point" since I believe the more important question is with "The rainy season". Have you read our replies to pask's post?

    Again, I really don't believe the author of "The rainy season" was being neutral at all. I believe they are clearly mocking what is to be called a "rainy season" in a desert climate.Murphy and I agreed that it's ironic!;)
     

    TheNameOfAWind

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Hallo everyone :)

    I'm aware "such as" has been discussed in many threads before, but I don’t seem to find it the way it is used in this book (the dystopic novel They, by the English writer Kay Dick). I think I may be missing something.

    Here's three examples:

    ‘They offered us all sets. Adrian accepted one, for the boys, and for news, such as it is.’
    [Hanno offerto dei televisori a tutti. Adrian l´ha accettato, per i bambini, e per le notizie, such as it is

    Neighbours, such as I had, kept their windows closed

    I vicini, such as I had, tenevano le finestre chiuse

    Such news as was, I collected in the shop.
    Such news as was
    , le ottenni al negozio.


    Is it specifically british? What does it mean?



    Thank you all for your help <3
     

    Starless74

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    ‘They offered us all sets. Adrian accepted one, for the boys, and for news, such as it is.’
    [Hanno offerto dei televisori a tutti. Adrian l´ha accettato, per i bambini, e per le notizie, such as it is

    Neighbours, such as I had, kept their windows closed

    I vicini, such as I had, tenevano le finestre chiuse

    Such news as was, I collected in the shop.
    Such news as was
    , le ottenni al negozio.
    Sono tre frasi molto differenti tra loro; anche il significato di "such [...] as..." potrebbe cambiare di conseguenza.
     

    theartichoke

    Senior Member
    English - Canada
    Sono tre frasi molto differenti tra loro; anche il significato di "such [...] as..." potrebbe cambiare di conseguenza.
    They all sound to me as if they probably mean "to the extent there is / I had / there was any [news / neighbours]," but the "neighbours" one is more ambiguous than the other two, because without the commas it would mean "the kind of neighbours I had." On the whole, though, it sounds like there was little news (or little news of value) to be had, and the speaker had few neighbours.
     

    TheNameOfAWind

    Senior Member
    Italian
    I thought it might mean: the neighbors kept the windows closed, just like I did. Go figure. :rolleyes: :D
    That's definitely not it, since the protagonist refused the tv set (they're part of a minority that refuses to obey the new laws, like the rule that everyone should own a tv set at home)

    Qui "such as it is" mi suona come "diciamo così" ma senza conoscere il contesto è difficile dire.
    non mi torna tantissimo perché l'autrice è estremamente asciutta, e non usa frasi riempitive, ma chi può dirlo

    They all sound to me as if they probably mean "to the extent there is / I had / there was any [news / neighbours]," but the "neighbours" one is more ambiguous than the other two, because without the commas it would mean "the kind of neighbours I had." On the whole, though, it sounds like there was little news (or little news of value) to be had, and the speaker had few neighbours.

    That might actually work. I'm not 100% sure, but I guess we will never be, since the author is no longer with us.


    Thank you all <3
     

    theartichoke

    Senior Member
    English - Canada
    I thought it might mean: the neighbors kept the windows closed, just like I did. Go figure. :rolleyes: :D
    For whatever reason, this construction is one where it would have to be "like" and couldn't be "such as." :) Even if you put the phrase in the right place, "the neighbours kept the windows closed, such as I had" doesn't work. I'm thinking that "such as" might have to refer to nouns, not verbs, but not sure if there are exceptions.
     
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