Swedish: Beslutad den... / Utkom från trycket den...

risingmoon

Senior Member
Mexican spanish
Good night. I need to translate both expressions into Spanish. They are in the cover of an ordinance published in 1994:

"AFS 1994:1 Utkom från trycket den 23 mars 1994" and "Beslutad den 26 januari 1994"

My attempts:

Aprobada el 26 de enero de 1994” (approved on January 26th 1994) and “Publicada el 23 de marzo de 1994” (published on March 23th 1994)

Do I need to make any corrections? Thanks in advance.
 
  • Beslutad = decided (not the same as approved). Utkom från trycket = ideomatically the same as published, literally "published from the press" — this is a phrase used specifically for laws, ordiances &c, referred to collectively as offentligt tryck.
     

    raumar

    Senior Member
    Norwegian
    I agree that "approved" doesn't look quite right here, and it is true that "beslutad" means "decided". But I am not sure whether "decided" is the best translation in this specific context. Maybe "adopted" could be an alternative -- the ordinance was "adopted on January 26th 1994"?
     

    risingmoon

    Senior Member
    Mexican spanish
    Thanks Den falska sköldpaddan y raumar for your answers. "Decided" has -as words in general- several meanings, so ¿which one do you mean, Den falska sköldpaddan? Meaning suggested by raumar (adopted) sounds logical to me in this context (although one of its meanings in Spanish is very similar to approved). Agreed ("acordado" in Spanish) also could work.

    Regarding "Utkom från trycket", I don't know what it means "published from the press" :confused:, I'm sorry. I couldn't find translations into Spanish of that sentence. If I can use only "published", it will be enough for me.

    What do you think? Thanks for your time.
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    I think I agree with Raumar that "adopted" might be a more appropriate translation to English, but I think that is because it's just idiomatic to use that word in English rather than it being literally more correct - in other words it sounds more 'right' in English. My impression of the word in this type of context is that you can write a resolution for example, and it is then put in front of a committee or other group of people who then "adopt" the resolution. The difference between "adopt" and "decide" is that "adopt" is what you end up doing to the resolution after you have made the decision to do so. So the members decided to adopt the resolution.

    I think that's the distinction I would make in English.

    As for the other part I would imagine that maybe what we're looking at is more literally the printing of material. To me at least we can most likely say that a text or decision is "published" online. The meaning then is simply that whatever is decided is made available to those who should get to see it - often the general public. But I would also think that if this entity, maybe a government agency, decided that this needed to also be available in print then "Utkom från trycket" would refer to the day it was literally printed. I suppose it could maybe also be a distinction between different layouts of the text or graphics. I could imagine for example that if an agency changes logotypes for example a new printed edition with different logotypes and maybe a different font would yield a new date for ("Utkom från trycket") that set of printed documents, whereas the legal decision was still published at some earlier point in time and will still have the old date.

    Those are my impressions of the potential differences. I'm not a lawyer and I don't work for the government so I obviously can't give you a 100% clear answer on this, but perhaps it's enough for now. And maybe you can look at the regulations and compare them to see if there are different "print" and "publishing" dates. Perhaps that'll yield an answer.
     

    raumar

    Senior Member
    Norwegian
    Let me just confirm that this dictionary entry from Risingmoon's link fits our context (except that this is a verb in our context).
    adopted adj(resolution: accepted)adoptado adj
    aprobado adj
    The committee published its adopted resolution.
    El comité publicó su resolución adoptada.
    When I was sceptical to "approved" in English, it was because it suggests (at least to me) some kind of external approval. For example, a system where a law is adopted by the Parliament and then needs to be approved by the President. But English is not my first language, so I am not sure about this, and this may in any case be different in Spanish - as this dictionary entry suggests.

    Regarding "Utkom från trycket": I understand Mattias' distinction, but I don't think it matters very much in practice. Especially not for a text published in 1994, when there wouldn't be any online publication. As Den falska sköldpaddan wrote, this seems to be a standard legal phrase used in these kinds of documents. A literal translation might be something like "published by the printing office", but I am not sure if this makes sense in English or Spanish. I think you can safely translate "utkom från trycket" as "published".
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    I agree regarding "adopted".

    When it comes to the word "published" I think I still maintain that there's a difference worth preserving when translating. I did a search online and while we can find that "publicera" is a synonym for "utkomma" they're actually not always defined the same if you look them up separately.

    So if you check SAOB for example there's a distinction between the two, and while there seems to be some overlap and a general clear understanding what something often means regardless of the word chosen, in some cases the two don't appear to be exactly the same. So for example:

    SAOB

    tryckår: 1955
    PUBLICERA pub1lise4ra, i Sveal. äv. -e3ra2, v. -ade ((†) p. pf. publiceret G1R 24: 484 (1554), Brahe Kr. 23 (c. 1585); publiceert SUFinlH 4: 291 (1614); p. pf. pl. publicerte OfferdalKArk. N I 1, s. 106 (1720)). vbalsbst. -ANDE, -ING, -NING (†, Linc. Cc 2 b (1640)); jfr PUBLICIST, PUBLIKATION.
    Ordformer
    (pub- 1527 osv. pup- 1629. -licer- 1527 osv. -lisher- 1711. -lÿser- 1647)
    Etymologi
    [jfr t. publizieren, eng. publish, fr. publier; av lat. publicare, konfiskera, offentliggöra, till publicus, offentlig, allmän (se PUBLIK, adj.)]
    1) (†) offentligen uppläsa l. meddela (ngt), kungöra, bekantgöra; äv. (med avs. på kungörelse l. förordning o. d.): utfärda; äv.: offentliggöra namnet på (ngn som utnämnts till ngt o. d.); äv. i p. pf. i adjektivisk anv.
    All of that appears to point to making something available to the public, whereas (this is for "ut-komma" and "b");

    b) (fullt br.) till 6 a, om skrift l. kungörelse o. d.: komma ut (se komma ut I 1 a); särsk. i sådana uttr. som utkomma av trycket (se tryck 5 b γ); äv. om författare o. d., i uttr. utkomma med ngt, ge ut ngt. Boken har utkommit i ny upplaga. G1R 24: 486 (1554). Skadeliga Stadgar (kan) utkomma under den bästa Konung. Lagerbring 1Hist. 3: 673 (1776). 1495 utkom den första tryckta boken på svenska. Schück o. Lundahl Lb. 1: 11 (1901). Josef Anér som just utkommit med sina memoarer ”Magistern blev affärsman”. Expressen 20/11 1961, s. 13. jfr ny-utkommen.
    appears slightly different. Especially the last part in conjunction with sv.Wikipedia.org's entry on "upplaga": "Upplaga är en term som används till exempel inom bok- och tidningsbranschen. Ordet är ett substantiv och är synonymt med utgåva och edition. Det syftar dels på en särskild utgåva av en publikation, dels på dess storlek (i antal exemplar). "

    Also searching for "+publicerad +utkom +trycket" on google seems to yield some search results where the two words are used differently.



    Anyway, even though you can publish something by printing it doesn't mean that you have to do that, or that anything that's printed is published. I think common usage will have people say or think "publicerad" when they read that something "Utkom från trycket", simply because a lot of the time you won't actually say "Utkom från trycket" in a situation where it also wasn't a legally new publication. However, I did bump into several cases where "publicera" did not refer to "Utkom från trycket", simply because it was about pictures etc.

    So I think the eventual question is whether it's worth preserving this difference or not when translating. I would probably say 'yes' simply because if someone refers back to published text it's worth noting if it ever was printed or not. Saying that something was "Utkom från trycket" would in at least my mind indicate that there's a literal paper trail somewhere (unless it was all destroyed), where as simply saying "Det publicerades" doesn't necessarily mean that.

    Perhaps I'm wrong about this.
     

    risingmoon

    Senior Member
    Mexican spanish
    Wow! A lot of information here! Thanks, MattiasNYC and raumar for your time, efforts and analyses, I appreciate them very much. Let me say that I found an English translation of an AFS that includes both expressions (please, see page 5). It says:

    "Adopted 16 September 1999" [adopted meaning accepted, or agreed to my knowledge] and "Published 1 December 1999".

    In my experience, translations into English from languages as Swedish, usually shorten the sentences (very often titles and subtitles) or even change it [also shortened], I don´t know why - perhaps practical reasons. Maybe the example above is one more.

    In this case, honestly, the analysis and discussion go beyond the purpose of my translation. Please excuse me, but in this specific case it is not necessary to be very accurate. As I said in #4 if I can use only "accepted/agreed" and "published" [as in the example], it will be enough for me. Thanks again!

    What do you say?
     
    Last edited:

    raumar

    Senior Member
    Norwegian
    Mattias, if we should use another translation of "utkom från trycket" than "published", what would you suggest? "Printed" could be an option. I don't speak Spanish, so I don't know how that works in Spanish.
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    It's a good question. I'm not 100% sure.

    I just checked some of my books bought here in the US and "Printed in" seems to appear in several of them. In addition to that there is "Copyright" of course, and also sometimes it says "First Edition, April 2016" for example. One book says;

    "First published in hardcover in 2003 by Metropolitan Books
    First Owl Books Edition 2004
    A Metropolitan / Owl Book
    Printed in the USA"

    That seems to indicate the publishing was in 2003, in hardcover by Metropolitan, then Owl printed its first edition the year after, and this current copy that I'm holding is by both Metro/Owl and was printed in the USA.

    So I'm not sure. Like both of you said it might not matter, but I just thought it was worth to note the distinction so that if there is a precedence in the Spanish language in that market risingmoon could adapt properly.
     
    Fine contributions here from raumar and MattiasNYC here. I don't have much to add.

    First of all, I obviously meant idiomatically in my previous post, and nothing else. There is always a tension between the literal and the idiomatic. The main thing when doing a translation is the purpose of the work, and for practical purposes it seems fine here to use terms like adopted/approved and printed/published, even though these terms might miss the mark slightly.

    As for beslutad, as indicated by MattiasNYC, this refers to the fact that, in a specific meeting, the official body concerned (board, committee, parliament etc.) makes a formal decision that is put on public record. As for utkom från trycket, this is an old legal phrase that might have lost much of its force since online publishing was introduced. I'm not sure if it's in use any more. There is strictly speaking a certain contamination in the phrase, for utkomma and tryckas are not really the same thing. There is also the phrase gå av trycket. More or less, tryckas = gå av trycket = utkomma från trycket. From Google I glean "Inte mycket av det som gavs ut medan kriget ännu pågick har samma kraft som det som gick av trycket efteråt.", where clearly gavs ut and gick av trycket are used synomomously: <"gick av trycket" - Google Search>. Another matter is if the term promulgated could be used, but that would be a separate discussion.
     
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