Swedish: fakta

normordm

Senior Member
Arabic - Sudanese
I recently noticed adjectives are not used in the plural form when describing "fakta"(and probably other plurals). Is there a reason for this? Fakta is the plural of faktum, right? So why am I seeing:

rolig fakta
intressant fakta
...

Instead of:

roliga fakta
intressanta fakta
...

Tack på förhand
 
  • MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    I couldn't tell you but my guess is that right or wrong some Swedish people have just sort of ended up using "fakta" instead of "faktum". You definitely still see "faktum" used, for example when people say "But the fact is that..." = "Faktum är att..."
     

    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    As far as I know Latin hasn't been taught in Norway since 1896 (except for a few special schools) and disappeared completely in 1974. I presume that the situation in other Scandinavian countries has been similar and people don't recognize the Latin plural endings any longer. Faktum or fakta is all the same to the general public. Other Latin plurals have had the same fate: fora, narkotika, farmaka, and many others.
     
    I didn't even know "faktum" is the singular of "fakta". I've probably heard it many years ago, because it seems familiar, but it's not really the sort of word you hear a lot. The exception is the phrase that Mattias mentioned "Faktum är att ...". I have heard that phrase many times, and I might even have used it myself, but for me it's just one of those old expressions that you use without thinking what it actually means.

    I think I would probably treat it as an uncountable in many situations. "en fakta" doesn't sound quite right. I would translate "It's a fact" as "Det är fakta". On the other hand, both "rolig fakta" and "roliga fakta" sounds OK to me and I might even prefer the latter one in some situations.
     

    roligfakta

    New Member
    Dutch
    The faktum is something that has happened or happens now and the fakta are how it happened or happens. For example, Faktum är "in fact", they are married now, Fakta "facts" about the wedding. They married in a church he had black clothes and she had a white dress
     

    roligfakta

    New Member
    Dutch
    jag refererar till svenska
    Ordet Faktum är ett konstaterande. ordet fakta beskriver faktumet.
    rolig fakta kan du sätta mycket före, mycket rolig fakta men inte många
    roliga fakta kan du sätta både mycket och många före, många roliga fakta eller mycket roliga fakta
    du kan säga ett roligt faktum
    eller många roliga faktum
    Ordet faktum ändras inte i plural på svenska

    I refer to Swedish
    The word Faktum is a statement. The word fakta describes the statment.
    "rolig fakta" funny facts you can put very before, very funny facts but not many
    "roliga fakta" funny facts you can put both very and many before, many fun facts or very funny facts
    You can say a funny "faktum" statment
    or many fun "faktum" statments
    The word "faktum" statement is not changed in plural in Swedish
     

    Kieppi

    New Member
    Finnish
    jag refererar till svenska
    Ordet Faktum är ett konstaterande. ordet fakta beskriver faktumet.
    rolig fakta kan du sätta mycket före, mycket rolig fakta men inte många
    roliga fakta kan du sätta både mycket och många före, många roliga fakta eller mycket roliga fakta
    du kan säga ett roligt faktum
    eller många roliga faktum
    Ordet faktum ändras inte i plural på svenska

    I refer to Swedish
    The word Faktum is a statement. The word fakta describes the statment.
    "rolig fakta" funny facts you can put very before, very funny facts but not many
    "roliga fakta" funny facts you can put both very and many before, many fun facts or very funny facts
    You can say a funny "faktum" statment
    or many fun "faktum" statments
    The word "faktum" statement is not changed in plural in Swedish
    I have to say I don't agree. Faktum and fakta are not two different words. The singular form is faktum and the plural can be either faktum or fakta (see faktum | svenska.se). According to Svensk ordbok the meaning of the word faktum is "sakförhållande som inte kan bestridas" and the word is often used in plural "i mots. till tyckanden". It also says that "Fakta kan bara vara pluralform; *ett fakta är felaktigt." That means that the word fakta can't be used as singular form, i.e. "rolig fakta" (or "roligt fakta") is not correct.
     

    roligfakta

    New Member
    Dutch
    För mig är fakta också information och ett faktum visar om de är rätta eller felaktig
    t.ex i en rättegång båda sidor lägger fram sina fakta i målet, och rätten bedömer sedan vilka fakta som är korrekta.
    Om fakta bara var sakförhållande som inte kan bestridas, då kunde rätten inte bedöma om de fakta som lags fram i målet var rätta eller felakiga.

    Det är rätt att du inte kan ha ett framför ordet fakta ett fakta, ett roligt fakta o.s.v. men rolig fakta är i obestämd form så det kan man säga
    exempel ett: Har du Fakta om jorden?, -Ja jorden är rund. Tack, Det är rolig fakta om jorden, eller Tack, det är ett roligt faktum om jorden, men du svarar inte i detta fall Tack, det är roliga fakta
    exempel två: Har du Fakta om jorden?, -Ja jorden är rund, och där finns det hav och berg. Tack, Det är roliga fakta om jorden, eller Tack, det är rolig fakta om jorden

    For me, fakta are also information and a faktum shows whether it is right or wrong
    eg in a trial both sides present their fakta in the case, and the court then judges which fakta are correct.
    If the fakta were only factual matters that cannot be disputed, then the court could not judge whether the fakta were correct or incorrect which were presented in the case.

    It is true that you cannot have the word fakta in sigular form, "ett fakta", "ett roligt fakta" etc. But "rolig fakta" are in indefinite form so you can say that
    example one: Do you have "fakta" about the earth? -Yes the earth is round. Thanks, It's "rolig fakta" about the Earth, or Thank you, it's a "roligt faktum" about the earth, but you don't answer in this case Thank you, it's "roliga fakta" about the earth
    example two: Do you have the facts about the earth ?, -Yes the earth is round, and there are seas and mountains. Thanks, It's "roliga fakta" about the earth, or thank you, it's "rolig fakta" about the earth
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    I have to disagree with that.

    I think you're being inconsistent if you are saying that "fakta" are presented in a trial and the court then decides which are correct, but then after say that the earth being round is "fakta". If we ignore for a second the issue of singular and plural it simply doesn't make sense to interpret the word that way. "Fakta" as information that is only arguably correct to me seems fundamentally wrong.

    For example, the premise of the Swedish television program "Kalla fakta" is indeed that the program presents "cold hard facts". It isn't that it's giving the viewer some information that's up for debate, it's about the actual facts.

    As for "fakta" in a court I think you're thinking about it the wrong way semantically. Both sides present evidence they say is true. They present whatever it is as being fact, as being true, and the role of the court is essentially to evaluate all available evidence and then either convict or acquit the accused. But if the process shows that something that was presented as a fact was incorrect it ceases to be a fact, it becomes something else.

    If I say that it was "fakta" that the Volkswagen beetle was the fastest car in the world in 1995 then I'm wrong. It doesn't remain "fakta" while I am wrong, it goes from being "fakta" to being something else... a "lie", a "misstatement"... a "misconception" perhaps. But it is certainly no longer "fakta".

    I think you can illustrate how it is probably not correct to view "fakta" as only information and "faktum" as proven "fakta" by asking yourself if the following is correct:

    - We can say that the statement "the earth is flat" is "fakta" about the earth.

    Can we say that? If "fakta" doesn't have to be correct, then we can. If "fakta" has to also be correct, then we cannot. If "fakta" is derivative or closely related to "faktum" then it clearly indicates that it is incorrect.
     

    roligfakta

    New Member
    Dutch
    If the Swedish TV program "Kalla Fakta" was broadcast at the time when everyone thought that the earth was flat, they would say it there until science discovered that the earth is actually round
     

    roligfakta

    New Member
    Dutch
    Sen hade säkert Kellyanne Conway försvarat Kalla Fakta och sagt att det var alternativa fakta. Skämt o sido, Om faktum uppstår att faktan är felaktig kallar man det sedan kanske för felaktig information,
    för mig har det då alltid varit felaktig information och inte ett sakförhållande som inte kan bestridas. Det är vad du säger också
     

    raumar

    Senior Member
    Norwegian
    If we return to the grammar, let me ask the Swedish native speakers a question:

    exempel ett: Har du Fakta om jorden?, -Ja jorden är rund. Tack, Det är rolig fakta om jorden, eller Tack, det är ett roligt faktum om jorden, men du svarar inte i detta fall Tack, det är roliga fakta
    exempel två: Har du Fakta om jorden?, -Ja jorden är rund, och där finns det hav och berg. Tack, Det är roliga fakta om jorden, eller Tack, det är rolig fakta om jorden
    From my Norwegian perspective, this looks incorrect. More precisely, the answer "Tack, det är rolig fakta om jorden" looks completely wrong in both cases, no matter if we are talking about one or two facts.

    In example one, the answer should be "Tack, det är ett roligt faktum om jorden". As Kieppi has pointed ot, the dictionary says that "Fakta kan bara vara pluralform; *ett fakta är felaktigt." But, as Ben Jamin and FluentSpeakerNot have explained, many people don't know that "faktum" is the singular of "fakta". So I would certainly not be surprised to hear people say "Tack, det är ett roligt fakta om jorden", or maybe "Tack, det är en rolig fakta om jorden".

    In contrast, based on the Norwegian use of these words, I would be much more surprised to hear "fakta" used as an uncountable noun, as in "det är rolig fakta om jorden". The TV programme, for example, is called "Kalla Fakta" and not "Kall Fakta". What do the Swedish native speakers think about this?
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    Om faktum uppstår att faktan är felaktig kallar man det sedan kanske för felaktig information,
    för mig har det då alltid varit felaktig information och inte ett sakförhållande som inte kan bestridas. Det är vad du säger också
    Yeah but you're missing the point. The point is that you would not continue to call that information "fakta" exactly because it was no longer shown to be true, and that is the exact same characteristic of the word "faktum". That's the point.

    I think any use of "fakta" as simply 'information proposed to be true' is about as loose a use of the word as using it as singular instead of just plural.
     
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