Swedish : fråga om uttal

Discussion in 'Nordic Languages' started by Brannoc, Dec 6, 2017.

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  1. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Varför är några ord på svenska betonade med en plötslig rösthöjning och separerad i hälften, hör till exempel att bli uttalad hö-ra ?
     
  2. Segorian Senior Member

    Icelandic & Swedish
    Det handlar om helt vanligt svenskt uttal. Sök upp ’ordaccent’ eller pitch accent på Wikipedia. En utförlig beskrivning finns i artikeln ”Swedish phonology” (under Stress and pitch).
     
  3. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Tack lite svårt att följa Wiki-exemplen. I exemplet hö-ra utan betoning - höra - har det en helt annan mening ?
     
  4. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    Finnish
    The pitch accent is based on the grammatical structure of the word. The infinitive form of a verb will have grav accent, the definite plural form of a noun will have akut accent. Sometimes the infinitive form of some verb and the definite plural form of some noun happen to be spelled identically, but the pronunciation will be different. For example "bona" in the Wikipedia table ("to polish" vs. "the nests").

    "Höra" has just one meaning, the infinitive form of the verb "to hear". Therefore it is always pronounced the same way (grav accent). Obviously the pronunciation may vary based on the dialect: grav accent doesn't exist in finlandssvenska.
     
  5. Segorian Senior Member

    Icelandic & Swedish
    That is also why learners of Swedish need not worry too much about the whole pitch accent thing (unless they are determined to sound exactly like a native Swede).
     
  6. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Thanks all a bit complicated as grammar at school was the one occasion I got the rare chance to doze off.

    So if I understand it all correctly so far....

    1. Unfortunately my only experience of accents is in French and even though I can get by I still have no idea which and what goes where. So are these grav and akut accents the same as Ö Ä Å or are these Swedish ones called something else ? Because strangely enough I have very little problem indeed with the Swedish ones almost certainly because I enjoy the language and its many regional dialects anyway.

    2. Secondly I still have the feeling that these Swedish accents could just as easily also be used for strong emphasis of a particular word as well ? The same as in English where for example one feels very strongly indeed about something such as the common one "No Way !" where the voice rises sharply up and down the scale, compared to the mildest version "No thank you" where there's little change in the pitch of the voice at all. So would this be the same tonal emphasis used as well ?

    3. On the other hand if the akut and grav accents aren't only just for strong emphasis but can mean another word completely different such as bona in the Wikipedia table ("to polish" vs. "the nests") quoted above it will be very difficult to follow, even slightly embarrassing publicly showing to the world that you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. For example the ornithologist had to get up early to find the polish, or the housekeeper couldn't find any nests in the house at all never mind all the other interesting scenarios and intriguing possibilities.

    Get there eventually I hope.
     
  7. duck1966

    duck1966 New Member

    Swedish
    Hi,
    Just stumbled over this and couldn't resist...

    >>The vowels ÅÄÖ (åäö) are Swedish letters and have nothing to do with what You are discussing around accenting words to give them different meanings. (Att) höra ("to hear") has, as already said, no other meaning. Accenting it in the wrong way will sound a little odd but again there are Swedish dialects that probably sound strange to most Swedes. Just to clarify... ÅÄÖ comes in last in the Swedish alphabet after Z. More about ÅÄÖ here. Danish and Norwegian have these vowels also but with slightly different letters.

    >>Yes and it's used the same way in Swedish as in English. Nej tack ("No thanks") with falling pitch is polite but saying nej TACK means that you are a little annoyed at even getting the question (or it's simply a rude question).
    Tack ska du ha ("thank you") with falling pitch is just polite but use tack ska DU ha ("thank YOU") when reflecting back the initial thanking from your neighbor.

    >>Well this might take a little time to figure out but I don't think you should worry too much about people not understanding you because the context will make things clear. Maybe you'll invoke a few smiles along the way. Your effort to speak Swedish will hopefully be appreciated but don't be surprised if many Swedes would prefer to speak English. But I think you may have learned that already. :) So just hang in there!

    My favorite word to get correctly accented is anden ("the spirit" or "the duck/mallard"). Akut accented says "the duck" (hope I got that right). But in doubt just use ankan ("the duck") instead. :)
    Another example böna ("bean" or "(to) beg") is easier as it has grav accent in most dialects. Only context will tell in this case. And do use be [be:] (not bee) for "beg" instead. Yes it also means "pray".

    >>Lycka till!
     
  8. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    Finnish
    1. This can be confusing because the same terms (accent aigu, aggent grave) are used in French but they mean a completely different thing. In French, an accent is just a mark above a letter in a written text (é, è, ê). Sometimes the mark doesn't even affect the pronunciation at all (à, où). In Swedish, an accent is the pitch you use when you say a word. A Swedish word usually doesn't have any accent marks written above it (except é). The marks in å, ä, ö are not called accents.

    2. & 3. The native speakers here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that if you want to emphasize a word, you just take the appropriate accent that comes with the word and do an exaggerated version of it. "You must POLISH the nests!" would be "Du måste BOO - NA bona!" Correspondingly, "You must polish the NESTS!" would be "Du måste bona BOOOna!"

    P.S. I need to mention that I worded the two rules in message #4 quite badly and there are probably dozens of other rules that I didn't mention at all determining which accent goes with which form of which type of word. Good luck!
     
  9. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Thanks for all the interesting information….

    Yes and it's used the same way in Swedish as in English. Nej tack ("No thanks") with falling pitch is polite but saying nej TACK means that you are a little annoyed at even getting the question (or it's simply a rude question).

    I understand about saying nej TACK with the emphasis on TACK in Swedish if you were a little annoyed etc. at getting the question the same as we also do in English. But I would have thought that in Swedish you would also say NEJ tack with the emphasis on NEJ if you wanted to be absolutely firm the same as in English and that there would be absolutely no mistake in what you were saying. In other words the accentuation or emphasis is still the same in both languages.

    Well this might take a little time to figure out but I don't think you should worry too much about people not understanding you because the context will make things clear. Maybe you'll invoke a few smiles along the way.

    I think it would be the smiles along the way that might make me feel that people were unconsciously being slightly condescending, that's ok we understand the difficulty so don't worry about it. Whereas it's exactly the opposite as it would be a question of me not having the slightest idea what I'm saying and that I don't have a clue :)

    Your effort to speak Swedish will hopefully be appreciated but don't be surprised if many Swedes would prefer to speak English. But I think you may have learned that already. [​IMG]So just hang in there!

    Yes indeed, but I do occasionally wonder if the Swedes knew just how frustrating it can sometimes get for many English people able to speak Swedish at nearly all levels only to have everyone immediately replying in English :). The same I guess if every time you spoke in English we would always reply in Swedish, though to be honest I've occasionally got into the amusing habit of immediately replying in Swedish which while I've still a long way to go can be quietly satisfying….;-)

    To illustrate all these points about accents and if it's okay with the moderators, I'd like to include a link to a short Vimeo clip I’ve made where the lady in question between 36 – 38 seconds says what sounds like the word ho-ra that I first brought up together with what sounds like at-ter (eat ?).

    I downloaded all this from a very enjoyable Swedish dialect programme I regularly watch in which I can also slow down the speech which is very important. In fact it's not only these particular 12 episodes in all that are interesting in themselves, they are also a very useful way to listen to the many different dialects in Sweden anyway.

    In fact I brought this particular dialect question up in an earlier post on here on November 15 as I wondered which were the most recommended dialects to understand in Swedish in the end picking out three of the 50 shown Lund, Stockholm and Mariehamn finding them the easiest to follow. I've also got a link to this particular you Tube video as well if anyone's interested….?

    2. & 3. The native speakers here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that if you want to emphasize a word, you just take the appropriate accent that comes with the word and do an exaggerated version of it. "You must POLISH the nests!" would be "Du måste BOO - NA bona!" Correspondingly, "You must polish the NESTS!" would be "Du måste bona BOOOna!"

    Ah ! So are these accents all about accenting or emphasising a word to make a strong point as mentioned above, or….?

    P.S. I need to mention that I worded the two rules in message #4 quite badly and there are probably dozens of other rules that I didn't mention at all determining which accent goes with which form of which type of word. Good luck!

    Oh ! any idea what they are or is there a list of these rules somewhere ?

    All very interesting….! :)
     
  10. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    Finnish
    I tried to say that emphasizing a word doesn't make people change the pitch accent from akut to grav or vice versa. The pitch accents are just done more strongly when there is emphasis and more subtly when there isn't.
    I wasn't able to find a good, organized list anywhere online. Again, maybe the Swedes here can help? But you can start with the Wikipedia article that was mentioned earlier:
    I found some more rules in the study "Prosodi i svenskans ordbildning" that was published online (one of the attachments here at the bottom of the page).

    The book "Svensk prosodi i praktiken" was recommended on a Finnish website to people who want to learn to do the Swedish pitch accents the way they are done in Sweden. But it's not very cheap.
     
  11. duck1966

    duck1966 New Member

    Swedish
    I understand about saying nej TACK with the emphasis on TACK in Swedish if you were a little annoyed etc. at getting the question the same as we also do in English. But I would have thought that in Swedish you would also say NEJ tack with the emphasis on NEJ if you wanted to be absolutely firm the same as in English and that there would be absolutely no mistake in what you were saying. In other words the accentuation or emphasis is still the same in both languages.[/QUOTE]

    Yes absolutely it works the same way.

    I think it would be the smiles along the way that might make me feel that people were unconsciously being slightly condescending, that's ok we understand the difficulty so don't worry about it. Whereas it's exactly the opposite as it would be a question of me not having the slightest idea what I'm saying and that I don't have a clue :)

    Well, I guess that's just part of learning a foreign language? :)

    Yes indeed, but I do occasionally wonder if the Swedes knew just how frustrating it can sometimes get for many English people able to speak Swedish at nearly all levels only to have everyone immediately replying in English :). The same I guess if every time you spoke in English we would always reply in Swedish, though to be honest I've occasionally got into the amusing habit of immediately replying in Swedish which while I've still a long way to go can be quietly satisfying….;-)

    Oh yes that's exactly what I mean. Many Swedes think their exellent at a foreign language and see a chance to show off (or they just enjoy speaking it) and totally missing the fact that their counterpart would like to practise Swedish... Hmm. Point taken! :) Jag fortsätter därför på svenska.

    To illustrate all these points about accents and if it's okay with the moderators, I'd like to include a link to a short Vimeo clip I’ve made where the lady in question between 36 – 38 seconds says what sounds like the word ho-ra that I first brought up together with what sounds like at-ter (eat ?).

    OK. Ho-ra (hooker) är ju inte ett supertrevligt ord, men hurr-a (hurrah/hooray) är trevligt! Stavningen är ju olika, men orden låter nästan likadant. Jag tror det var detta som åsyftades? Bra exempel i så fall.
    Menar du ät-er (eating) and är-ter (peas)? Jag förstår nog mer från videon när länken kommer.


    I downloaded all this from a very enjoyable Swedish dialect programme I regularly watch in which I can also slow down the speech which is very important. In fact it's not only these particular 12 episodes in all that are interesting in themselves, they are also a very useful way to listen to the many different dialects in Sweden anyway.

    Låter intressant. Jag tittar gärna. Jag älskar dialekter!

    In fact I brought this particular dialect question up in an earlier post on here on November 15 as I wondered which were the most recommended dialects to understand in Swedish in the end picking out three of the 50 shown Lund, Stockholm and Mariehamn finding them the easiest to follow. I've also got a link to this particular you Tube video as well if anyone's interested….?

    Ja det var ju ännu mer intressant - jag råkar bo i Lund :)

    2. & 3. The native speakers here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that if you want to emphasize a word, you just take the appropriate accent that comes with the word and do an exaggerated version of it. "You must POLISH the nests!" would be "Du måste BOO - NA bona!" Correspondingly, "You must polish the NESTS!" would be "Du måste bona BOOOna!"

    Ah ! So are these accents all about accenting or emphasising a word to make a strong point as mentioned above, or….?

    Detta sista har med syftningar att göra. Om det finns något annat man kan göra med bona än att bona dem så betonas verbet, eller om det finns något annat än bona att bona så betonas substantivet (the noun). Jag tror det är samma sak i engelska.

    P.S. I need to mention that I worded the two rules in message #4 quite badly and there are probably dozens of other rules that I didn't mention at all determining which accent goes with which form of which type of word. Good luck!

    Oh ! any idea what they are or is there a list of these rules somewhere ?

    Det finns det säkert. Och en hel hög med undantag förmodligen. :) Min flickvän är lärare så jag kan kolla med henne om hon vet.

    All very interesting….! :)

    Ja språk är intressant. Speciellt när man får lära sig saker man inte alls tänker på i sitt eget språk!
     
  12. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Moderator - ok to post a couple of Swedish video dialect links as discussed yesterday ?
     
  13. Segorian Senior Member

    Icelandic & Swedish
    It seems this is generally not permitted. However, if the moderator does not allow you to post the links, I would like to mention that the information you provided about the Youtube one made it easy to find, so if you provide similar information about the Vimeo clip those interested could simply search for it on the website.
     
  14. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    //246254891
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  15. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    Finnish
    It looks like we're talking about an interview with Yvonne Ryding in Svenska dialektmysterier, episode "Gnällbältet".

    If I heard it correctly, she says this: "Jag har ju gått ifrån att riktigt få verkligen höra... äta... och verkligen... det var nästan tortyr ibland att få höra hur hemsk man lät"

    It doesn't make sense to me (eat what?). But the pitch accent she uses in höra and äta(?) is just an emphasized version of the grav accent.
     
  16. duck1966

    duck1966 New Member

    Swedish
    The poster of this video should use "ö" instead of "o" in the title for reasons explained above :)
     
  17. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Många tack, men det är inte vad hon säger att jag var förbryllad om, men varför behovet att betona så starkt som jag ofta har hört andra svenskar gör? Kan det vara detsamma som på engelska när något verkligen irriterar eller stör dig varför hon accentuerar orden så starkt?
     
  18. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    Finnish
    Yes. It's a different vowel: "hö" is pronounced like the English word her, "ho" is pronounced like the English word who.
    This applies to the noun hora ("a whore") and the infinitive hora ("to do some whoring"), too. Both have grav accent, only context will tell.
     
  19. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Det var jag tänker på viktigare saker....! ;)
     
  20. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    Finnish
    Ja, det kan det. Du kan betona de ord som är viktiga, till exempel de ord som syftar till saker som irriterar eller stör dig.

    Men accenten som du beskrev i trådens första meddelande låter som grav accent:
    Grav accent kan inte användas om du vill betona ett ord som har akut accent, till exempel om det som irriterar dig är "the A's", "the duck", "the reverse gear", "the nests" or "the spas". Sådana ord måste betonas med akut accent.

    Läs också: Swedish accent 1 and 2
    akut accent = accent 1
    grav accent = accent 2
     
  21. duck1966

    duck1966 New Member

    Swedish
    Ja hon blev ju irriterad på människorna som ständigt anmärkte på hennes dialekt förr i tiden.
    Äta kanske syftar på att hon fick ta emot eller svälja dessa kommentarer och också svälja sin ilska, men videoklippet kan vara ryckt ur ett sammanhang som förklarar mer från intervjun.
     
  22. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Tack för all din stora hjälp .... :)

    Det är allt väldigt komplicerat som jag aldrig har hört talas om före detta accentkoncept innan, speciellt där höjning och sänkning av sin röst kan innebära 2 olika ord eftersom jag inte tror att den finns på engelska. Har du någonsin försökt accentidén när du talar engelska som jag tycker att det låter väldigt roligt !

    Jag har varit online i eftermiddag och nu har en tydligare idé att se det anden exemplet också, så vad med alla de olika regionala dialekterna som visas på videon också, det måste göra livet väldigt svårt ibland ?

    Och vad sägs om att läsa och skriva svenska är det svårt att förstå också ? Självklart lär jag mig svenska Jag är tvungen att göra misstag, så förhoppningsvis måste svenska vara väl vana vid det hela och kommer att ta det i kontext ?

    Måste vara helvete att lära sig kinesiska....
     
  23. duck1966

    duck1966 New Member

    Swedish
    Som jag skrev tidigare så älskar jag dialekter. Ja de kan i sällsynta fall vara mycket svåra att förstå med helt egna ord. Men tänk om alla pratade likadant överallt? Det hade varit tråkigt! Engelska dialekter är också kul.
    Som jag skrev tidigare så hoppas jag de flesta har tålamod med din svenska.
    Det finns nog utmaningar i alla språk!
     
  24. Segorian Senior Member

    Icelandic & Swedish
    Det är precis det som är fallet: ’akut’ och ’grav’ accent finns inte i engelska, och inte i flertalet andra europeiska språk heller. Det hela kan kanske förklaras genom en jämförelse av tre olika språk:
    • Franskan har ingen ordaccent. I stället uttalas ord och fraser genom att trycket (vanligtvis) läggs på sista stavelsen före en paus eller ett avbrott, och man kan därför prata om ’frasaccent’. Andra stavelser i meningen eller frasen har inte nödvändigtvis någon särskild betoning. Fransmännen uttrycker detta ibland genom att säga att deras språk inte har någon accent tonique (medan andra benämner frasaccenten så). På grund av detta brukar betoning inte användas för att framhäva ett ord (för detta använder man särskilda ord eller ordföljder: Ça j'aime bien ! Det tycker jag om!).

    • Engelskan har tryckbetoning, dvs. varje ord har betoning på en bestämd stavelse, vare sig det uttalas isolerat eller mer sammanhängande. Man kan framhäva ett ord genom att lägga extra tryck på den betonade stavelsen. En mer utförlig beskrivning av detta behövs inte här!
    • Svenskan har tryckbetoning, men också tonaccent (dock inte t.ex. finlandssvenskan). Det betyder att förutom att ord alltid uttalas med tryck på en bestämd stavelse, som i engelskan, så har varje ord också antingen ’akut accent’ (som också kallas för ’accent 1’) eller ’grav’ accent (’accent 2’). Skillnaden på dessa kan enklast beskrivas som att akut accent har stigande ton och grav accent fallande ton på den betonade stavelsen. För övrigt kan akut och grav accent låta ganska olika, beroende på dialekt. Många dialekter har t.ex. en grav accent med två tontoppar, och då höjs ibland tonen påfallande på den andra toppen. I ditt klipp uttalas ordet ’höra’ på det sättet, och dessutom emfatiskt.
    Egentligen inte. De allra flesta dialekter förstås utan större problem.
     
  25. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Mycket intressant.

    Jag skulle ha tänkt från det här då att det är väldigt svårt att lära sig att tala svenska på rätt sätt (hur skulle man definiera korrekt under alla omständigheter ?) om det finns flera olika dialekter, som gör att jag skulle ha tänkt mig nödvändigt att veta vilken man ska välja att lära sig innan du börjar.

    Följaktligen tror jag på det du sa att det kommer ner till 2 val, går för den som erkänns vara den officiella svenska accenten som förmodligen är Stockholm (?) och som därför erkänns av de flesta svenskar som en följd av landsomfattande tv etc. Eller finska-svenska som låter mig som jag är ny på allt detta accentkoncept är det enklaste, snabbaste och framför allt säkraste sättet för alla, annars hur kommer du att bli tydligt förstådd om du försökte lära dig en viss tonal accent?

    Att gå vidare från detta verkar tydligt att någon lär sig svenska och kommer från ett land som inte har tonal accenter, att det enklaste sättet skulle vara att gå till finska-svenska. Vilka frågor ställer sig då svenska har problem med att förstå finska-svenska och i så fall vad ?

    För övrigt har Island tonala accenter ?
     
  26. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    Finnish
    Har du hört om det svenska sj-ljudet? Alla ord som har sj-ljudet kan orsaka problem, eftersom den finlandssvenska versionen av sj-ljudet kan låta som det svenska tj-ljudet. Om du uttalar chock ("shock") eller skina ("to shine") på finlandssvenskt sätt, kan en svensk tro att du försöker att säga tjock ("thick") eller Kina ("China").
     
  27. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Yes I know it well och där är phweet bra - 777 sick seamen looked after by 777 sick nurses :)
     
  28. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Yes I love dialects too especially in the area I live in in south-west England which is not far from Cornwall. When I was on holiday from school in the south-east of England I used to spend a lot of time with some family friends on their farm in Cornwall where they had a very strong regional dialect indeed. Similar to some remote Scottish areas where it’s very difficult even for me to understand what they’re saying !

    The unfortunate thing being that nowadays so many people move from the rest of the country to Cornwall that it’s only on the most remote farms and areas that the original Cornish strong accent still just survives. Sadly now when combined with the influence that television and social media has had, very few of the original old Cornish families’ children can speak it.

    Luckily I was often able to help my family friends out especially with their summer harvesting and during holidays, and soon started speaking in their accent as I was exposed to it all the time. Then after I left school I didn’t go back to Cornwall for many years, until a few years ago after having lived abroad including Sweden for many years I eventually returned back there and settled down. It was good to be back I can tell you, but the really funny thing was not long after I arrived I found myself lapsing unconsciously back into my original dialect in local farmer's markets !

    Hope you can understand my rusty Swedish ok….?
     
  29. duck1966

    duck1966 New Member

    Swedish
    Jag upplever samma sak när jag besöker mina släktingar i Dalarna där satsmelodin går upp och ner mer än i andra svenska dialekter. Efter bara ett par dagar faller jag ohjälpligt in i deras "dalamål" utan att på något sätt tala dialekten perfekt.

    Jag brukar kolla på Traffic Cops på Youtube och ibland förstår jag bara 10% av vad grabbarna säger i intervjuerna (Yorkshire/Yorkish?), men det är spännande ändå.

    Ja din svenska grammatik är lite sådär, men sammanhanget i dina meningar hjälper till. :)
     
  30. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Yorkshire....

    Återkommer ett ögonblick till den bästa dialekten för att välja någon som vill lära sig svenska och kommer från ett land som inte har tonala accenter, skulle det enklaste sättet vara att välja finska-svenska? Om så har svenskarna större problem att förstå finska-svenska och om de gör det, vad skulle de vara?
    _____________

    To give a couple of examples of Cornish accents the first one quite easy to understand the second one difficult even for me so I slow it down using Audacity audio app, enter into youtube the two headings in italics below....

    "John’s Story – dialect of a Cornish farmer"

    This first one is a nice easy soft accent and the accent I grew up with during school holidays and still immediately lapse back into especially at local farmer’s markets today. The word "yes" for example being pronounced "ai-s"....with the letter "i" (akut ?) being strongly emphasised towards the end so could possibly be remnants of Old English, possibly the same as some Swedish words today.

    "West Country Yap" ( yap most likely short for yapping meaning endless chats about anything)

    The 2 old men, at the beginning and end of the clip, not the single man with the hat, are absolutely 100% authentic old Cornish dialect and very hard even for me to follow almost certainly going back to the 1800s if not earlier ! I really love their rich accents which are so full of character and melody and always thoroughly enjoyable to listen to. So sad they've nearly all gone.
     
  31. duck1966

    duck1966 New Member

    Swedish
    Alltså vilken som är en typisk dialekt som talas i Yorkshire? Men Yorkshire är kanske stort...? :)
     
  32. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
  33. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Några förslag....? :)

    "Återkommer ett ögonblick till den bästa dialekten för att välja någon som vill lära sig svenska och kommer från ett land som inte har tonala accenter, skulle det enklaste sättet vara att välja finska-svenska? Om så har svenskarna större problem att förstå finska-svenska och om de gör det, vad skulle de vara?"
     
  34. Segorian Senior Member

    Icelandic & Swedish
    Det är nog inte någon bra idé att välja en mycket specifik dialekt eftersom det då blir svårare att hitta material att läsa och lyssna till. Frågan är snarare om det finns en variant av standardspråket som lämpar sig bättre än andra för de som vill lära sig svenska. I princip tror jag inte att det spelar så stor roll om man väljer t.ex. svenska som den talas i stockholmsregionen, sydsvenska eller finlandssvenska. Icke-svenskspråkiga som bor i Sverige gör ändå säkert bäst att försöka lära sig den variant av rikssvenska som talas i respektive region medan de som bor utomlands kanske borde koncentrera sig på normaliserad svenska som den används i olika media (dvs. en svenska som är anpassad för att kunna förstås av de allra flesta). Att välja finlandssvenska är inte fel på något sätt, men jag tycker inte att man behöver göra det av den orsaken att det kan bli svårt att lära sig skillnaden mellan akut och grav accent, eftersom det finns så många andra parametrar att ta hänsyn till. Och som svar på den sista frågan så har jag inte märkt att finlandssvenska i allmänhet uppfattas som svår att förstå.
     
  35. Brannoc

    Brannoc Member

    S. West England
    English
    Ja det förstå jag mycket användbart tack. Men du säga "normaliserad svenska" vad är det som jag har inte hört av det förut ? Jag tänker av den ekvivalent i Engelska "The Oxford English Dictionary"....
     

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