Swedish: Pratas det kultur...

kfz2010

Senior Member
Chinese
In the following sentence:

"Pratas det kultur är det ofta avståndet mellan länder som Somalia och svensk majoritetskultur som lyfts fram, när det egentligen är den glorifierande och våldsdyrkande gängkulturen bland unga som vi borde prata om."

How shall the phrase "pratas det kultue" be understood? Why is "pratas" used here?

Thanks.
 
  • Swedish Anna

    Senior Member
    Swedish, Sweden
    Hejsan!

    First of all, Pratas det kultur is short for När det pratas kultur or Om det pratas kultur.

    Pratas det kultur
    literally means "When/If culture is talked about". Pratas is the passive form of prata, and det is a formal subject. Kultur is the subject of this clause, and the agent is omitted. (It would be wrong to skip the formal subject here and say Pratas kultur/ Om kultur pratas/När kultur pratas.)

    It is more common to use an active sentence and the indefinite pronoun man to express the same thing: När man pratar om kultur.../ Om man pratar om kultur.../ Pratar man om kultur...
     

    AutumnOwl

    Senior Member
    Swedish, Finnish
    The sentence is an example on how not to write in Swedish. Since 2009 there is a Language law in Sweden, and paragraph 11 (klarspråksparagrafen) says that writing should be "vårdad, enkel och begriplig". The law is about the written language done by governmental agencies, and other public offices. But it's a good idea for everyone who writes to consider the recommendations, to write in a way that's easy to understand.

    The author of the text has probably tried to write in a way they think sounds "official", but the sentence is clumsy, and mixes passive (Pratas det kultur ...) with active (... som vi borde prata om.) The sentence should be in active form (klarspråk), and definitively not mix passive and active forms.
     

    kfz2010

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    The sentence is an example on how not to write in Swedish. Since 2009 there is a Language law in Sweden, and paragraph 11 (klarspråksparagrafen) says that writing should be "vårdad, enkel och begriplig". The law is about the written language done by governmental agencies, and other public offices. But it's a good idea for everyone who writes to consider the recommendations, to write in a way that's easy to understand.

    The author of the text has probably tried to write in a way they think sounds "official", but the sentence is clumsy, and mixes passive (Pratas det kultur ...) with active (... som vi borde prata om.) The sentence should be in active form (klarspråk), and definitively not mix passive and active forms.
    Yes! :)
    This is one sentence from DN newspaper, where I thought I could learn good Swedish:)
     

    serbianfan

    Senior Member
    British English
    Since 2009 there is a Language law in Sweden, and paragraph 11 (klarspråksparagrafen) says that writing should be "vårdad, enkel och begriplig". The law is about the written language done by governmental agencies, and other public offices.
    Is there a similar law in Norway? There should be!
     

    AutumnOwl

    Senior Member
    Swedish, Finnish
    Yes! :)
    This is one sentence from DN newspaper, where I thought I could learn good Swedish:)
    Is the sentence a quotation or is it from a text written by a journalist? Most people doesn't speak grammatically correct all the time, so what's written as quotations could perhaps be seen as "good spoken Swedish", but it's not always "correct written Swedish".
     

    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Yes, you can, and the sentence is good Swedish. However, it would be good to add :

    "Pratas det kultur är det ofta avståndet mellan länder som Somalia och svensk majoritetskultur som lyfts fram, [...]"

    I agree that the original sentence is messy.
    I think that the following version would be even better "Pratas det om kultur(avstånd) pratas det ofta är det ofta om avståndet mellan länder som Somalia och svensk majoritetskultur"
     

    AutumnOwl

    Senior Member
    Swedish, Finnish
    Eftersom det inte finns någon länk till vilken artikel meningen kommer ifrån är det svårt att veta vad det är som diskuteras, och vad som här menas med kultur, ordet "kultur" kan ju användas för och innefatta mycket. Meningen låter som ett citat, och det som jag uppfattar att personen som uttalat sig vill ha fram är att man borde istället prata om den "glorifierande och våldsdyrkande gängkulturen bland unga" och inte lyfta fram avståndet mellan länder som Somalia och svensk majoritetskultur (vad nu detta är). Handlar det om kulturen nere i Somalia, eller kulturen bland somalier som bor i Sverige?
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    I agree that the original sentence is messy.
    I think that the following version would be even better "Pratas det om kultur(avstånd) pratas det ofta är det ofta om avståndet mellan länder som Somalia och svensk majoritetskultur"

    mmm.... I don't think I agree with that. As "Owl" hints at the second part of the sentence needs to be there as well, and if you leave it as is you then have "prata om" three times. So I wouldn't use that in the first part of the sentence. I also feel it sounds a bit redundant even if we get rid of the second part. A bit clunky.

    One thing I can see that would arguably make the sentence more consistent is to write the end as "som det borde pratas om". At least it's now all passive I think. However, I think the sentence as a whole is a bit clunky even if we change that.

    I would maybe consider something like "som borde diskuteras" as an alternative ending.

    Weird, I agree that the sentence is a bit clumsy, yet it's absolutely clear to me...
     
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