Synagogue

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rushalaim

Senior Member
русский
Are there common root of words Σύγχυσις "Babylon" and συναγωγὴν "gatherings" in Greek?
 
  • Perseas

    Senior Member
    No, except for the "σύν", of course.
    σύγχυσις<σύν+χυσις (v. χέω) <<mixture, confusion>>
    συναγωγή<σύν+αγωγή (v. άγω) <<assembly>>
     

    rushalaim

    Senior Member
    русский
    συναγωγή English transcribes as [synagogue]. Does it mean, that the Old Greek pronounced it like English today, [sÜnagogue] not [sinagogue]?
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Greek Υ was pronounced like German ü from classical times and probably until the 10th century. Earlier it was pronounced like German u and maintained that sound in other (Doric or Aeolian) dialects; there are even indications that it may have been pronounced like Eglish u in 'mule' in some places. But by Roman times, there is no doubt it was pronounced like German ü, a sound which Latin lacked; that is why a special letter was added to the Latin alphabet to represent that spund in loanwords from Greek. Only the educated Romans pronounced it that way, of course; the masses pronounced it a simple i, which is how y ended up as just another letter for i in most European languages.
     

    rushalaim

    Senior Member
    русский
    Greek Υ was pronounced like German ü from classical times and probably until the 10th century. Earlier it was pronounced like German u and maintained that sound in other (Doric or Aeolian) dialects; there are even indications that it may have been pronounced like Eglish u in 'mule' in some places. But by Roman times, there is no doubt it was pronounced like German ü, a sound which Latin lacked; that is why a special letter was added to the Latin alphabet to represent that spund in loanwords from Greek. Only the educated Romans pronounced it that way, of course; the masses pronounced it a simple i, which is how y ended up as just another letter for i in most European languages.
    Some say that the Greek Alphabet was taken from Phoenician. So, is the Greek Upsilon (Y) is Phoenician Waw-letter (Y)? If it is so, then the word "synagogue" must be pronounced like [sawnagogue] like [oo]-sound.
    What about the word κριος? Should it be pronounced like [kawrios] like [oo]-sound?
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Of course the Greek alphabet was taken from the Phoenician script, with the very important difference that Greek used some Phoenician letters to express vowels, which Phoenician did NOT express. Phoenician yod, which expressed the semivowel [j], which Greek didn't really need, became Greek iota, for the vowel [ i ]. Phoenician waw was needed in Greek with its semivocalic value of [w]; it was therefore taken over as the sixth letter of the Greek alphabet, with the form of F (further borrowed into Latin later and still used, in a modified form, when Greek letters are used as numbers). A variant of F, shaped like a Y, was added at the end of the Phoenician alphabet (after taw) to represent the vowel [ u ]. The w-sound disappeared from Attic Greek early on, and as a later form of Attic became the common language ('koine') of the Greek world after Alexander the Great's conquests, both the w-sound and the F-letter disappeared from Greek altogether. Y survives to this day, originally pronounced as , later as [y] (=German ü) and since approx. the 10th century AD as [ i ].
    From your questions, I assume you are primarily interested in Biblical Greek. There is absolutely no doubt that in hellenistic and early Byzantine times, when both the Greek Bible and the Eastern Church Fathers' were composed, Greek Y was pronounced as German ü, in Κύριος, συναγωγή and all other contexts, except in the diphthongs αυ, ευ, ηυ, ου. Υ was pronounced as [ u ] (=English oo) in pre-classical times and was never pronounced as [aw].
     
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    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    To go back to your original question, if you translate σύγχυσις as 'confusion' and συναγωγή as 'congregation', you will recognise the common element as the prefix συν- = con-
     
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