tailor/tailleur/sastre

merquiades

merquiades

Senior Member
Lorraine, France
English (USA Northeast)
Hello/bonjour/hola... Out of curiosity I'd like to know how you say (tailor), the person whose profession is making clothes and sewing, in your language. J'aimerais savoir comment vous dites (tailleur) dans votre langue. Me interesaría saber cómo se dice (sastre) en tu idioma natal. Thanks/merci/gracias
 
    • Bonjour et bienvenue sur ce forum. On espère vous y revoir souvent. :)

    Hungarian: szabó [French: ça beau] = tailor; Szabó = Tailor (a very common Hungarian name)
     
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    Finnish: räätäli (adapted from Swedish)
    Swedish: skräddare

    Another adaptation is kraatari but that is not used any more.

    (Räätäli is not a Finnish family name, and Kraatari is very uncommon (61 living persons).)
     
    Hi. Thanks for your information. Now I'm going to have to study the rules for pronouncing Finnish and Hungarian! I hope to get a lot more languages too! Tailor with its old spelling Taylor is quite a common English surname. I've heard Sastre twice in Spanish but I don't think it's common. And, to my knowledge Tailleur is not a lastname in French. Encolpius, merci de ton accueil chaleureux! A bientôt.
     
    In Greek:
    «Ράπτης» ('raptis, m.) or colloquially, «ράφτης» ('raftis, m.). The tailoress is «ράπτρια» ('raptria, f.) or «ράφτρια» ('raftria, f.). It's a hellenistic noun (ῥάπτης-'rhaptēs, m.) deriving from the ancient verb «ῥάπτω» ('rhaptō)-->lit. "to string or link together" metaph. "to sew, stitch, tailor". «Ράπτης» is a very common Greek family name.
     
    En Indonésienne:

    Penjahit

    from the root word: <<jahit>> means "to sew". Thus <<penjahit>> means "someone who sew".
     
    In Macedonian кројач-ка /кroyach-ка/ with emphasis on a person who works with scissors,
    шивач-ка /shivach-ка/ with emphasis on a person who works with a needle and
    шнајдер-ка /shnayder-ка/ which is a German loanword
     
    Thanks a lot everybody for participating! Interesting that this word seems to be so different in every language (Kr- in slavic languages at least). I still would be interested in getting more languages though and knowing if there's a difference between masculine and feminine.
     
    hui said:
    Finnish: räätäli (adapted from Swedish)
    Swedish: skräddare

    Another adaptation is kraatari but that is not used any more.

    (Räätäli is not a Finnish family name, and Kraatari is very uncommon (61 living persons).)
    Click to expand...

    But then: what was the original Swedish word, Sakvaka?

    in Dutch we just have kleermaker (clothes-maker, but containing a singular that we no longer use).
    There must have been a word like snijder (cutter), but that is quite uncommon now. According to some information snijder was the old one, kleermaker is the modern one. The fact is: there is noone in Flanders/ Holland who is called De Kleermaker, But all kinds of Snij(d)ers [all kinds of spellings possible] are quite common.

    (Interesting question, I have 'taught' myself something)
     
    German: Schneider (from schneiden = to cut);

    Czech: krejčí m. (pron. CRAY-chee,from krájeti = to cut); švadlena f. (from šíti = to sew).

    There are also střihač (m.)/střihačka (f.) = cutter and šič (rarely m.)/šička (f.) = sewer, but strictly used for factory workers in the mass production of clothing.

    Both Schneider and Krejčí are common surnames in Bohemia.
     
    The funny thing is there is no female version in Dutch of either kleermaker (-maakster ???) or snijder (snijster ?), but there is a naaister (seamstress, sewer), who made the clothes for women in fact.
     
    (Moderator note: thread merged with a previous one about the same topic. Please don’t forget to search before opening a thread, to avoid unnecessary repetitions).

    Hello everyone,

    I would like to know how do you say "tailor" in your language and if the same concept also goes by other names.

    Thanks for your help and advice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator:
    In Greek:

    «Ράπτης» [ˈɾapt̠is̠] (masc.) or colloquially, «ράφτης» [ɾaft̠is̠] (masc.) with dissimilation. The tailoress is «ράπτρια» [ˈɾapt̠ria] (fem.) or «ράφτρια» [ˈɾaft̠ria] (fem.) & «ράφτρα»[ˈɾaft̠ɾa] (fem.). It's a Koine Greek deverbal noun, «ῥάπτης» /ˈrʰɐptɛːs/ (masc.), from the Ancient verb «ῥάπτω» /ˈrʰɐptɔː/ --> to sew (together), stitch, instigate. «Ράπτης» is a very common Greek surname.
    The tailoress is often called «μοδίστρα» [mo̞ˈðis̠t̠ra] (fem.) --> sempstress, seamstress < Fr. modiste. The masculine «μόδιστρος» [ˈmo̞ðis̠t̠ɾo̞s̠] refers to the male haute couturier or fashion designer.
     
    M. портной (portnóy) [pɐr'tnoɪ̯], f. (dated) портниха (portníkha) [pɐr'tnʲixə]. The masculine form is essentially an adjective with the meaning "related to pants".
    Dialectally & historically also m. швец (shvets) ['ʂvʲɛʦ], ~"sew-er". In modern Russian only its female counterpart, швея (shveyá) [ʂvʲɪ'ja] survives, but it relates to портной approximately as "seamstress"/"seamster" to "tailor".
     
    Catalan: (male) sastre /ˈsas.tɾə/, Western /ˈsas.tɾe/; (female) sastressa /səsˈtɾɛ.sə/, Balearic /səsˈtɾə.sə/, Western /sasˈtɾe.sa/

    In Old Catalan, the common word was sartre, from Latin sartor, specially between the 12th and 14th centuries. Already in the 14th century, sastre, the form developed by dissimilation, became the main one in use, and sartre would soon disappear.

    In Spanish, sastre is a loanword from Catalan, first attested already in the 14th century. The femenine form is sastra. I don't know what words were used before.
     
    Awwal12 said:
    M. портной (portnóy) [pɐr'tnoɪ̯], f. (dated) портниха (portníkha) [pɐr'tnʲixə]. The masculine form is essentially an adjective with the meaning "related to pants".
    Dialectally & historically also m. швец (shvets) ['ʂvʲɛʦ], ~"sew-er". In modern Russian only its female counterpart, швея (shveyá) [ʂvʲɪ'ja] survives, but it relates to портной approximately as "seamstress"/"seamster" to "tailor".
    Click to expand...
    Thank you very much. I wonder if the word портной bears a similitude to the Russian words for "size", "tape" or "waist". It really is surprising that a word defining a rather complex guild is simply reduced to pant-making (there's absolutely nothing wrong with being just a pant-maker either! : )
     
    Penyafort said:
    Catalan: (male) sastre /ˈsas.tɾə/, Western /ˈsas.tɾe/; (female) sastressa /səsˈtɾɛ.sə/, Balearic /səsˈtɾə.sə/, Western /sasˈtɾe.sa/

    In Old Catalan, the common word was sartre, from Latin sartor, specially between the 12th and 14th centuries. Already in the 14th century, sastre, the form developed by dissimilation, became the main one in use, and sartre would soon disappear.

    In Spanish, sastre is a loanword from Catalan, first attested already in the 14th century. The femenine form is sastra. I don't know what words were used before.
    Click to expand...
    ¡Muchas gracias!
     
    Perseas said:
    Thanks to this thread I learned that Greek "ταγέρ" (skirt & suit for women) derived from French "tailleur"!
    Click to expand...
    Perhaps you've already seen it, but if not, this vid might interest you then. ;)

    Penyafort said:
    In Spanish, sastre is a loanword from Catalan, first attested already in the 14th century. The femenine form is sastra. I don't know what words were used before.
    Click to expand...
    I knew about the Catalan origin of that word, but I had no idea the feminine form sastra was in use! At the very least I don't think I've ever encountered it here in Mexico, where modista is the usual term for the female equivalent of a sastre.
     
    Perseas said:
    Thanks for the video.
    I knew that Greek ταγέρ was of foreign origin -probably French- but I didn't know it was a false friend with the French word!
    Click to expand...

    It is not a false friend. In French, tailleur is also the name of that kind of elegant suit.
     
    Rainbowlight said:
    I wonder if the word портной bears a similitude to the Russian words for "size", "tape" or "waist".
    Click to expand...
    No, I'm afraid it doesn't (that would be razmér, lénta/métr and táliya/póyas respectively).
    Rainbowlight said:
    It really is surprising that a word defining a rather complex guild is simply reduced to pant-making
    Click to expand...
    Please bear in mind that a millennium ago pants actually were a relatively complex item compared to the main piece of clothing, i.e. a common shirt (especially if we consider more archaic designs of shirts). While pants weren't restricted to military professionals anymore, for quite a while they still remained a piece of clothing worn by grown-up men only. It's may be noteworthy that the modern words for pants both in English and in Russian are foreign loans.

    However, it's actually unclear whether portnóy derives from portý mentioned above, or directly from Old East Slavic pórt ("a kind of coarse fabric") from which portý seem to come.
     
    Tema 'tailor/tailleur/sastre' tailor/tailleur/sastre

    This thread I published years ago deals with the same subject    .


    I have heard "Couturier" used a lot in lieu of "Tailleur" in the Lorraine region of France.

    Va voir un couturier.
    Un couturier pourrait le recoudre.

    While I believe "couturier" is the equivalent of "seamstress" and is for women's apparel only and "tailleur" is for men, it is clear they use the former for both.
    I don't get suits or tuxedos made to order. I go for minor adjustments, sewing, repairs etc. They call themselves "couturiers".
    I'm not at all knowledgeable of this milieu so there may be slight differences that are beyond me.
    Actually I do hear the word "tailleur" used more frequently for the women's professional two-piece suit.
     
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    I said above I didn't know which word was used in Spanish before it borrowed sastre from Catalan. Well, now I know after checking the word in Portuguese.

    Portuguese: alfaiate​
    Medieval Spanish: alfayate (It is still included in the DRAE as a rarely used word, but it stopped being commonly used during the 15th century)​

    The word comes from the Arabic الْخَيَّاط‎‎ (al-khayyāṭ), which also means 'the tailor', with passing of /x/ to /f/.
     
    Penyafort said:
    I said above I didn't know which word was used in Spanish before it borrowed sastre from Catalan. Well, now I know after checking the word in Portuguese.

    Portuguese: alfaiate​
    Medieval Spanish: alfayate (It is still included in the DRAE as a rarely used word, but it stopped being commonly used during the 15th century)​

    The word comes from the Arabic الْخَيَّاط‎‎ (al-khayyāṭ), which also means 'the tailor', with passing of /x/ to /f/.
    Click to expand...
    Thank you reminding me, that during the Ottoman occupation, tailor was «τερζής» [t̠e̞rˈz̠is̠] (masc.) < Ottoman Turkish درزی /derˈzi/. Interestingly, the Turkish name for the profession survived after our independence but it came to describe the tailor of traditional Greek clothing, as opposed to «ῥάπτης» who was the tailor of "western" (European) style clothing. Hence the survived to this day surname of «Τερζής» alongside the surname «Ράπτης»
     
    No shocks for Cymraeg/Welsh - teil(i)wr for the male of the species and teilwres for the female. The mystery is whether these derive from Middle English or French spoken in England as taillour. The first recorded version in GPC dates from 1368, almost a hundred years after the Norman Conquest.

    Fun facts:

    Diminutive forms - teilwryn, teiliwryn
    Plurals - teil(i)wriaid, teilyriaid, teilwyr, teiliwrs
     
    merquiades said:
    Tema 'tailor/tailleur/sastre' tailor/tailleur/sastre

    This thread I published years ago deals with the same subject    .


    I have heard "Couturier" used a lot in lieu of "Tailleur" in the Lorraine region of France.

    Va voir un couturier.
    Un couturier pourrait le recoudre.

    While I believe "couturier" is the equivalent of "seamstress" and is for women's apparel only and "tailleur" is for men, it is clear they use the former for both.
    I don't get suits or tuxedos made to order. I go for minor adjustments, sewing, repairs etc. They call themselves "couturiers".
    I'm not at all knowledgeable of this milieu so there may be slight differences that are beyond me.
    Actually I do hear the word "tailleur" used more frequently for the women's professional two-piece suit.
    Click to expand...
    In general, a tailleur is basically a person that cut things. It may be stone (tailleur de pierre) hedges (tailleur de haies), dies for coins (tailleur de monnaies), gears (tailleur d'engrenages), etc.

    In sewing, a tailleur cuts and sews clothing items on measure for men or a person that runs sewing shop.

    Finally, a tailleur is a lady's suit.

    The feminine (tailleuse) was used only for workers in a manufacturing context or for the wife of the tailleur in a more crafts context. It reflects the traditionnal mentality : men were bosses and women, subordinate. Nowaday, a woman could be the boss and call herself tailleur (or even tailleure at least in Quebec).


    Couturier, couturière is a person whose work is sewing in general.

    A couturière (fem.) makes clothing items, especially for women.

    A couturier (masc.) creates clothes or run a haute-couture firm. (A woman in that position would probably not used couturière: she would probably call herself modiste or styliste for example.
     
    Awwal12 said:
    No, I'm afraid it doesn't (that would be razmér, lénta/métr and táliya/póyas respectively).

    Please bear in mind that a millennium ago pants actually were a relatively complex item compared to the main piece of clothing, i.e. a common shirt (especially if we consider more archaic designs of shirts). While pants weren't restricted to military professionals anymore, for quite a while they still remained a piece of clothing worn by grown-up men only. It's may be noteworthy that the modern words for pants both in English and in Russian are foreign loans.

    However, it's actually unclear whether portnóy derives from portý mentioned above, or directly from Old East Slavic pórt ("a kind of coarse fabric") from which portý seem to come.
    Click to expand...
    Thanks for your insightful comment. As for tailors and their trade, I tend to choose a simple term as a point of departure when thinking about a straight-forward, purely logical etymology.

    I think it's importante to say that tailors rarely work on their own. A tailor shop is a place where some cut fabric, others sew pieces of fabric, others create patterns... Believe it or not, some workers are exclusively in charge of making buttonholes and their job has a particular denomination...

    "Tailler" means to cut in French, which makes perfect sense as a tailor can be described as someone who cuts - fabrics, patterns and so on. Also, bear in mind that "taille" also means "waist" in French and other Romance languages. One of the first measures to be taken when going to a tailor is that of the "problematic" part of the body that is the waist, as it seems that a rather narrow waist seems to be a desirable feature for both men and women. And one more fascinating detail: "taille", again, also means "size" in French and other Romance languages (I am thinking of the Spanish word "talla")

    I would say that logic dictates that the word for "tailor" should have a clear connection with the primary actions of either cutting or sewing. I do believe that additional meanings related to tailoring (such as "adjustment", "measurement" or "customization") should always be secondary.

    I asked about other possible meanings hidden in word портной because I believe that a word related to tailoring must be located/hidden in a part of that word, whether it is "measure", "needle", "scissors" or "sewing".

    I cannot wait to see your answer!
     
    Penyafort said:
    I said above I didn't know which word was used in Spanish before it borrowed sastre from Catalan. Well, now I know after checking the word in Portuguese.

    Portuguese: alfaiate​
    Medieval Spanish: alfayate (It is still included in the DRAE as a rarely used word, but it stopped being commonly used during the 15th century)​

    The word comes from the Arabic الْخَيَّاط‎‎ (al-khayyāṭ), which also means 'the tailor', with passing of /x/ to /f/.
    Click to expand...
    Thanks for your answer. I think it must be said that Portuguese "alfaiate" comes indeed from an Arabic word. But the root of the Arabian word for tailor is inextricably linked to خياطة, which means to "sew". Therefore, an Arab tailor is called, in fact, "the one who sews" or a "seamster".
     
    hui said:
    Finnish: räätäli (adapted from Swedish)
    Swedish: skräddare

    Another adaptation is kraatari but that is not used any more.
    Click to expand...
    Another Finnish word is vaatturi < vaate (garment). It seems to be the "preferred" word and räätäli has been "obsolete" for decades – to my surprise.
     
    In Slovene it would be šivilja for a female person, there is however an archaic word šivar for a tailor that is male. Dialectal for tailor would also be žnidar, only for male.
    In BCS:

    The usual word would be šnajder for male and šnajderica for female.
    There are also archaic words, ie. švelja or švalja. Although švelja would be used for factory tailors. Other synonyms would also be šivač and šivačica.
     
    Swedish:
    As mentioned above, skräddare is the Swedish word for tailor. The word is from the German word Schneider, meaning to cut.

    Sömmerska means dressmaker, also from a German word saum, meaning seam.

    As the words have been used for a long time, neither is gender neutral when it comes to their endings, -are is male, the -ska is female. Today these tirles are usually seen as gender neutral, as the earlier specific use of -ska or -inna for females have disappeared, besides sömmerska the only 'female-ending' work titles I can recall are sjuksköterska/undersköterska (nurse/nurse's aid).
     
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