take it serious/take it seriously

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Wicked-1

New Member
Dutch - The Netherlands

Hi elroy, I need your opinion again. I hope you can help!

I thought I got it clear the other time, but when I tried to explain it to someone else, I could only find arguments for the opposite side again.

If I explain my thinking, would you please correct me if I'm wrong and explain why?
I'm not trying to be stuborn, just want to understand the rules correctly and so I can explain right as well to someone else.

So this is how I see it:

Adjectives describe (pro-)nouns.
Adverbs describe verbs and other non-(pro-)nouns.

Also, if it is an adverb, you should be able to put it in front of the verb and it would still make sence.

In "I am serious" or "the man is serious", why is here not an adverb used, when it describes how I AM and he IS, which are verbs? Because "serious" describes ME and THE MAN, which are (pro-)nouns and therefore an adjective needs to be used here. Does't matter if we ARE serious or TAKEN (perceived) serious, "serious" still describes the person, which is a (pro-)noun.

"I took it personal". If you use an adverb here and say "I took it personally", then "personally" means "in person" and not "to the person".

I took it personally, instead of sending a delegate. Here personally describes in which way you TOOK it. You personally (= in person) took it to the post office.
Here you can put it in front of the verb and it makes perfect sence.

I took IT personal and IT broke my heart. Here personal describes in which way you took IT. You took IT personal (= to the person) and got upset.
Here you cannot say, I personally took it, cause it would make no sence.

I'm taking HIM serious and I'm not taking HER serious. Him and her are replaceable and they are (pro-)nouns, therefore it is an adjective. I take him, them, it, the news, my studies serious.

If the verb was replaceable (and you can put it in front of it), then it would be an adverb. I'm seriously studying, talking, singing, etc.

He is (being) serious.
He is taken (being) serious.

She is (being) personal.
She is taken (being) personal.
 
  • elroy

    Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Also, if it is an adverb, you should be able to put it in front of the verb and it would still make sence.
    Where did you get this rule? I don't think it's true (see below).
    In "I am serious" or "the man is serious", why is here not an adverb used, when it describes how I AM and he IS, which are verbs?
    "to be" can be a linking verb (as is the case here), in which case it can take predicative adjectives. Predicative adjectives modify the subject.

    I am serious.
    The boy is short.
    The book is interesting.


    We don't say
    *I am seriously.
    *The boy is shortly.
    *The book is interestingly.
    Does't matter if we ARE serious or TAKEN (perceived) serious, "serious" still describes the person, which is a (pro-)noun.
    No.

    I am serious. >> "serious" modifies the subject. It tell us a characteristic of me.
    I am taking it seriously. >> "seriously" modifies the verb. It tells us how I am taking it.
    I took it personally, instead of sending a delegate. Here personally describes in which way you TOOK it. You personally (= in person) took it to the post office.
    Here you can put it in front of the verb and it makes perfect sence.
    "I personally took it" sounds very strange to me with that meaning, so your "if it's an adverb we can move it before the verb" test seems questionable.
    I took IT personal and IT broke my heart. Here personal describes in which way you took IT. You took IT personal (= to the person) and got upset.
    It describes the manner in which you took it.
    I'm taking HIM serious and I'm not taking HER serious. Him and her are replaceable and they are (pro-)nouns, therefore it is an adjective. I take him, them, it, the news, my studies serious.
    Why do you mean by "him and her are replaceable"?
    Again, we say "I'm taking him/her seriously," because we're describing how I take him/her.
    If the verb was replaceable (and you can put it in front of it), then it would be an adverb. I'm seriously studying, talking, singing, etc.
    I don't know what you mean by "if the verb was replaceable."
    But again, I don't think your test holds.
    I explained the topic differently. :tick:
    I differently explained the topic.
    :cross:
    He is (being) serious.
    He is taken (being) serious.

    She is (being) personal.
    She is taken (being) personal.
    I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
     

    Wicked-1

    New Member
    Dutch - The Netherlands
    "to be" can be a linking verb (as is the case here), in which case it can take predicative adjectives. Predicative adjectives modify the subject.

    I am serious.
    The boy is short.
    The book is interesting.


    We don't say
    *I am seriously.
    *The boy is shortly.
    *The book is interestingly.
    No.

    I am serious. >> "serious" modifies the subject. It tell us a characteristic of me.
    I am taking it seriously. >> "seriously" modifies the verb. It tells us how I am taking it.

    It describes the manner in which you took it.
    Why do you mean by "him and her are replaceable"?
    I don't know what you mean by "if the verb was replaceable."

    He is (being) serious.
    He is observed (being) serious.
    He is taken (being) serious.

    I am serious. >> "serious" modifies the subject. It tells us a characteristic of me.
    I am being taken serious. >> "serious" modifies the subject. It tells us a characteristic of me, or at least how it is perceived.

    I am taking it seriously. >> "seriously" modifies the verb. It tells us how I am taking it.
    How does it modify the verb? The verb is not modifyable here: I am taking it seriously, I am studying it seriously, I am ...? You can't replace the verb, it is the (pro-)noun that modifies: I am taking it, the news, you, your words, my pain, your feelings, serious.
     

    elroy

    Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    How am I taking it? Seriously. Personally. Well.

    All of these are about how I'm taking it. "Taking it" here means "responding/reacting to it." The adverbs describe how I am taking / responding to / reacting to it.

    Note that we would never say "I'm taking it good." Always "well"!

    I am taking it seriously. = I am taking it with seriousness / in a serious manner.
    I am being taken serious.
    I am being taken seriously.

    This is the passive version of "[Somebody] is taking me seriously."
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    I could only find good arguments for the opposite opinion, therefore I needed someone to really make it clear.
    I sympathise with your problem. As a German I had the same problem because our languages do not distinguish between predicative adjectives and adverbs morphologically. We can therefore distinguish them conceptually only by intellectual arguments and it is difficult for us to understand how other languages distinguish the categories in practice.

    In this particular case it is very simple, I think: only some verbs can function as copula verbs. Take simply isn't one of them and therefore can't link a predicative adjective irrespective of what semantic arguments for the opposite you may find.
     

    Wicked-1

    New Member
    Dutch - The Netherlands
    All of these are about how I'm taking it.

    Not correct. All of these are about how you are taking/judging IT, therefore you need to use an adjective. The adjective describes here how you take/perceive the (pro-)noun "it", i.o.w. which state you take/consider the (pro-)noun to be in. It doesn't say anything about your state of mind, manner or reaction. If you use an adverb, it describes in which state YOU are, while you are taking up the (pro-)noun.

    "Taking it" here means "responding/reacting to it." The adverbs describe how I am taking / responding to / reacting to it.

    Not correct. "Taking" here can mean many things, like: perceiving/observing/judging/considering/regarding/understanding/grasping/finding/seeing, but never responding to or reacting to.

    I am taking it seriously. = I am taking it with seriousness / in a serious manner.

    Not correct. You are not the one who is being serious. You are taking the other person to be serious.

    I'm taking her more serious than him. What you are actually saying here is:
    I'm taking/perceiving/considering her to be more serious than how I take him to be.

    Let's clarify this first: Is the rule the same for "I take" and for example "I perceive", or not?

    I take him serious/seriously?
    I perceive him serious/seriously?
    I take him personal/personally?
    I perceive him personal/personally?
     

    Wicked-1

    New Member
    Dutch - The Netherlands
    I sympathise with your problem. As a German I had the same problem because our languages do not distinguish between predicative adjectives and adverbs morphologically. We can therefore distinguish them conceptually only by intellectual arguments and it is difficult for us to understand how other languages distinguish the categories in practice.

    In this particular case it is very simple, I think: only some verbs can function as copula verbs. Take simply isn't one of them and therefore can't link a predicative adjective irrespective of what semantic arguments for the opposite you may find.

    Yes very true. Because we didn't grow up with the language, we can look at it from a distance, without being interfered by what we are used to.
     

    Wicked-1

    New Member
    Dutch - The Netherlands
    You are wrong, @Wicked-1. I have nothing to add to my prior explanations.

    Then I will have to answer the question myself: Yes the same rule applies for both "I take" and "I perceive", because it means the same sort of thing.

    You tried to tell me about the meaning of "take", but you don't understand it right yourself.
    You are not taking or receiving anything, it says what your take is on something, how you value it.

    I perceive her more serious than him.
    I take her more serious than him.

    I perceive her more personal than him.
    I take her more personal than him.

    I perceive her more faithful than him.
    I take her more faithful than him.

    I perceive her more capable than him.
    I take her more capable than him.

    I perceive her more beautiful than him.
    I take her more beautiful than him.

    I perceive her more helpful than him.
    I take her more helpful than him.

    I seriously (adverb) can't take you serious (adjective), but I won't take it personal (adjective) that you are wrong.
     

    elroy

    Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I am no longer interested in a discussion with @Wicked-1. For the benefit of non-native speakers who may be misled by the wrong information they are spreading:
    I perceive her more serious than him. :cross:
    I take her more serious than him. :cross:

    I perceive her more personal than him. :cross:
    I take her more personal than him. :cross:

    I perceive her more faithful than him. :cross:
    I take her more faithful than him. :cross:

    I perceive her more capable than him. :cross:
    I take her more capable than him. :cross:

    I perceive her more beautiful than him. :cross:
    I take her more beautiful than him. :cross:

    I perceive her more helpful than him. :cross:
    I take her more helpful than him. :cross:

    I seriously (adverb) :tick: can't take you serious (adjective) :cross:, but I won't take it personal (adjective) :cross: that you are wrong.
     

    DonnyB

    Member Emeritus
    English UK Southern Standard English
    With a multiplicity of different sentence examples having been posted, this thread now lacks the clarity and focus required to in order produce a productive discussion in our forum. I'm consequently now closing it: thanks to those members who have contributed. DonnyB - moderator.
     
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