Tame, to tame

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ThomasK

Senior Member
Belgium, Dutch
How would you translate "(a) tame (animal)" and "to tame (an animal)"?

A small extra: can you use it metaphorically? Like in "too tame a party"? (In fact I'd love to explore the whole semantic field of "submission" and adjectives or verbs linked with that, but I'll take that to the Language Lab) Or another word that you use for a sheep's character (herd spirit)?
 
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  • Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    ThomasK.

    This looks like being an interesting thread and my first reaction was to think you were referring to something like 'making a wild animal domesticated' as the verb or 'a non-wild' animal as the adjective.

    Considering further that 'tame' can also mean 'innocent' or 'not very sophisticated/crude' (of a joke or entertainment for example), I was wondering if you'd like that, too - or is that a separate thread?

    Once I know where you're going, I'll do some digging in Welsh. Ok?
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I'd focus on the literal meaning first but take the second meaning as a metaphoricall extension of the first and so mention it as well. [I started a thread on a much larger concept at Language Lab!]
     

    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    In Catalan (with parallel forms in the other Romance languages), you find three possible translations, with different nuances:

    1. DOMESTICAR (adjective domèstic + infinitive ending -ar) = tame, in the sense of turning a wild animal into a domestic one, that is, one that can stay at home, nearby men.​
    2. DOMAR (or variant DOMTAR) (from Latin DOMARE and DOMITARE, from the same root as the one before, DOM-us "house") = tame, in the sense of making a wild animal lose its ferocity.​
    3. AMANSIR (or variant AMANSAR) [from adjective mans, mansuet 'docile, tame' plus verbal affixes, from Latin MANSUS, MANSUETUS, from verb MANSUESCO "to tame", formed on manus + suesco "get accustomed to (man's) hand") = to tame, but also to calm, to soothe, to subdue...​
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Perfect! Reminds me of French: domestiquer, dompter (dompteur, animal trainer/…), apprivoisier, I guess…

    @Awwal12 : do you have a synonym of "tame" that could be used and which might also apply to sheep for example, as they seem to be group animals and very submissive, at least for us...
     
    Greek:

    (A) «Εξημερώνω» [e.k͡si.meˈɾɔ.nɔ] --> to tame, domesticate, civilise < Classical v. «ἐξημερόω/ἐξημερῶ» ĕksēmĕróō (uncontracted)/ĕksēmĕrô (contracted) --> to tame, civilise, cultivate < Classical preposition & prefix «ἐκ» ĕk which before a vowel becomes «ἐξ» ĕks + Classical adj. «ἥμερος» hḗmĕrŏs --> tamed, civilised, cultivated (of unclear etymology, possibly related to Skt. यमति (yamati), to restrain).
    Used when turning a wild animal into a domesticated one.

    (B) «Δαμάζω» [ðaˈma.zɔ] --> to tame, break, restrict, master < Classical v. «δαμάζω» dămázō & «δαμαλίζω» dămălízō --> to tame < denominative from «δαμάλης» dămálēs (masc.) --> tamer (PIE *demh₂- to tame cf Skt. दाम्यति (dā́myati), to tame, Lat. domare, Proto-Germanic *tamaz > Eng. tame, D. tam).
    Used when taming wild horses (and...women :D)

    (C) «Τιθασεύω» [ti.θaˈse.vɔ] --> to tame, domesticate, bridle < Classical v. «τιθασεύω» tĭtʰăseú̯ō (idem) < denominative from «τιθασός» tĭtʰasós (masc.) --> tamed, domestic, cultivated, mild (possibly Pre-Greek).
    Used when subduing wild animals (or inner passions).
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    do you have a synonym of "tame" that could be used and which might also apply to sheep for example, as they seem to be group animals and very submissive, at least for us...
    Well, there's adj. кроткий (krótkiy) "meek", although, obviously, it isn't a full analogue in modern Russian. However, its etymon used to mean exactly "tame" in Proto-Slavic, and it's still reflected in the words like v. укрощать (ukroschát') - "to tame and train (dangerous wild beasts)".
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Greek:

    (A) «Εξημερώνω» [e.k͡si.meˈɾɔ.nɔ] --> to tame, domesticate, civilise < Classical v. «ἐξημερόω/ἐξημερῶ» ĕksēmĕróō (uncontracted)/ĕksēmĕrô (contracted) --> to tame, civilise, cultivate < Classical preposition & prefix «ἐκ» ĕk which before a vowel becomes «ἐξ» ĕks + Classical adj. «ἥμερος» hḗmĕrŏs --> tamed, civilised, cultivated (of unclear etymology, possibly related to Skt. यमति (yamati), to restrain).
    Used when turning a wild animal into a domesticated one.

    (B) «Δαμάζω» [ðaˈma.zɔ] --> to tame, break, restrict, master < Classical v. «δαμάζω» dămázō & «δαμαλίζω» dămălízō --> to tame < denominative from «δαμάλης» dămálēs (masc.) --> tamer (PIE *demh₂- to tame cf Skt. दाम्यति (dā́myati), to tame, Lat. domare, Proto-Germanic *tamaz > Eng. tame, D. tam). Used when taming wild horses (and...women :D)

    (C) «Τιθασεύω» [ti.θaˈse.vɔ] --> to tame, domesticate, bridle < Classical v. «τιθασεύω» tĭtʰăseú̯ō (idem) < denominative from «τιθασός» tĭtʰasós (masc.) --> tamed, domestic, cultivated, mild (possibly Pre-Greek).
    Used when subduing wild animals (or inner passions).
    Are they interchangeable, Apmoy? I guess there are slight differences, nuances: in (B) and (C) control might be the most important feature, whereas "civil-isation" seems to be the keypoint.

    It reminds me of Awwal's reference to two verbs of taming: taming like in a circus seems different from the "classical" (?) domestication. It seems like a level higher than just taming them: one seems to push them into doing things they would never do spontaneously. [Not sure whether this is the right way to formulate it]
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    OK. But are you suggesting that укрощать is no longer in use, as opposed to ручной?
    Укрощать is perfectly in use, it's just different from приручать. The latter is a generic word for taming animals. The former is a very particular kind of taming.
    And while ручной means "tame", кроткий doesn't (not in modern Russian anyway).
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I have come to realize that taming for a circus for example is very specific indeed. We have not have a specific word, but the French dompteur (animal trainer) is a dierentemmer (lit. animal tamer)...
     

    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    I have come to realize that taming for a circus for example is very specific indeed. We have not have a specific word, but the French dompteur (animal trainer) is a dierentemmer (lit. animal tamer)...
    Exactly. In French and other Romance languages.

    We use derived terms from DOMARE / DOMITARE for that taming of lions and tigers, but also for the tame of horses. It's a training not intended to live with it at/near home, but for a particular purpose.

    There can even be a metaphorical sense of it. The translation of Shakespeare's The Taming of the Shrew, in which the shrew is a woman, tends to be translated into several Romance lanugages by using DOMARE.

    However, DOMESTICARE would be used for the historical turning of wolves into dogs, for example, or the modern turning of other animals, usually of a smaller size, into either pets or animals which live at home or in your garden.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Shakespeare: good link. We would use "temmen" but it is not common in my view as such...

    I can imagine the use of domesticare and domare with animals, but not with people basically...

    There is one we have not mentioned yet: (animal) husbandry. But I am in doubt: isn't it only the management of animals (at a farm), not the domestication as such? Etymology (etymonline.com): 'c. 1300, "management of a household;" late 14c. as "farm management;" from husband (n.)' BUT "in a now-obsolete sense of "peasant farmer" (early 13c.) + -ery"... Isn't taming the first phase of the process (getting control over the animal) and domestication is the further evolution: man using the control over the animal to "exploit" it economically?
     
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    Armas

    Senior Member
    Finnish
    Finnish:
    kesy "tame"
    kesyttää "to tame"
    They are used metaphorically quite similarly as the English words I think.
     
    Are they interchangeable, Apmoy? I guess there are slight differences, nuances: in (B) and (C) control might be the most important feature, whereas "civil-isation" seems to be the keypoint.

    It reminds me of Awwal's reference to two verbs of taming: taming like in a circus seems different from the "classical" (?) domestication. It seems like a level higher than just taming them: one seems to push them into doing things they would never do spontaneously. [Not sure whether this is the right way to formulate it]
    They're not used interchangeably they do express different things. For circus, B is used, the circus tamer is «θηριοδαμαστής/-δαμάστρια» [θi.ɾi.ɔ.ða.maˈstis] (masc.)/[θi.ɾi.ɔ.ðaˈma.stri.a] (fem.) from «θηρίο» [θiˈɾi.ɔ] (neut.) < «θηρίον» tʰēríŏn + v. «δαμάζω» (see my previous post)
     

    nimak

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    Macedonian:

    (a) tame (animal)
    питом/-a/-o/ (pitom/-a/-o/-i) adj. m./f./neut./pl.
    спитомен/-a/-o/ (spitomen/-a/-o/-i) adj. m./f./neut./pl.

    to tame (an animal)
    питоми (pítomi) v. 3rdp.s.
    спитомува (spitómuva) v. 3rdp.s.

    Metaphorically used for a person, as an adjective (питом/-a/-o/), it means: "meek", "nice", "friendly"...
     
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    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Just one brief question: how broadly can use use the words? Can you use them metaphorically. In Dutch for example we do not use the verb metaphorically except in combination with -able: ontembaar, un-tame-able, and the adj. tam, as too tame [+/-) pers.], without a soul, without a will …
     

    Nizo

    Senior Member
    In Esperanto:

    malsovaĝigi (mal- opposite of + sovaĝ- wild + -igi suffix creating a transitive verb) is one way to say "to tame," as in "to tame an animal." You can use the adjective malsovaĝa to describe an animal that is not wild.

    However, as in some other languages, there is another word dresi, which is usually used for to tame, as in Li dresas leonojn. Li estas leondresisto (He tames lions. He is a lion tamer.). In the Plena Ilustrita Vortaro, dresisto is defined as a person who professionally tames/trains animals. It can be used for wild animals such as lions and bears, or for domesticated animals such as dogs, cats, and horses. An animal tamed or trained this way would be referred to as dresita (dresita urso a tamed/trained bear).

    Neither of these words would be used in the figurative sense you asked about, such as to tame a party. That would probably be a verb like subpremi (to suppress). However, I did see dresita lakeo (a trained footman/lackey) used once.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I recognize this funny (in my eyes) "game" with the semantic negatives turning into positives "'negativised" by means of a prefix (malsano, ...). I do not really like it, but OK, that is very personal.
     

    nimak

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    Just one brief question: how broadly can use use the words? Can you use them metaphorically. In Dutch for example we do not use the verb metaphorically except in combination with -able: ontembaar, un-tame-able, and the adj. tam, as too tame [+/-) pers.], without a soul, without a will …
    Metaphorically, for a person only, like I said:
    Metaphorically used for a person, as an adjective (питом/-a/-o/), it means: "meek", "nice", "friendly"...
    The verb can be used metaphorically too:
    да припитомиш некого (da pripitomiš nekogo) = lit. "to tame someone"; to make someone "meek", "nice", "friendly"... or to "tame" someone who has "wild" character...
     
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