-te shimau and its more casual form

bruno321

Member
Spanish (Uruguay)
Hi. Just a little question: what does the "-te shimau" form mean? And I'm aware there's a more casual form of it, but I can't recall how it was (-te chatta?). When would you use one or the other?

Thanks.
 
  • Musical Chairs

    Senior Member
    Japan & US, Japanese & English
    Umm...I don't know if this what you mean, but I will try. I'm going to make my own example since you didn't give one.

    "yatte shimau" - get it over with.
    "yachatta" - got it over with. It has a connotation of "oh well," or "it wasn't that bad" or other things that mean something not serious. It's more informal, but not the same as "yatte shimau."
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Hello bruno,

    Your little question in fact requires a very big answer. :) But I'd just try something short. If you need more explanation, please ask!

    V-te shimau can express a lot of attitudes of the speaker but I consider involuntariness to be at the centre of its semantic web. E.g., moshika shitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai
    She/He is not against that, but maybe is afraid to become attracted, or doesn't really want to, but his/her emotions are stronger than his self restraint...
    Other attitudes are; finality, regret, reserved opposition and so on.

    Now for the morphology;
    In casual speech, V-te shimau is replaced by V-chau. Your V-chatta is the replacement for the past V-te shimatta. V, the verb stem, undergoes the same phonological changes for -te shimau and -chau. Examples are;
    taberu: tabeteshimau vs. tabechau
    nomu: nondeshimau vs. nonjau
    kaku: kaiteshimau vs. kaichau
    kau: katteshimau vs. kacchau
    dasu: dashiteshimau vs. dashichau.
     

    bruno321

    Member
    Spanish (Uruguay)
    E.g., moshika shitara, watashi wa anata o suki ni natte shimau kamoshirenai
    I cannot really understand this example, I don't have that level of Japanese (moshika shitara? ni natte?). Could you expand a little or give some more practical examples?

    Thank you both :)
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Okay, how about waratteshimatta (from warau; to laugh)? This means, "I could not help laughing." The teshimatta part suggests involuntariness: The speaker might have known it was inappropriate to laugh in the given situation or he simply did not think he would laugh, but he did.
     

    lrosa

    Senior Member
    English - Ireland
    Now for the morphology;
    In casual speech, V-te shimau is replaced by V-chau. Your V-chatta is the replacement for the past V-te shimatta. V, the verb stem, undergoes the same phonological changes for -te shimau and -chau.
    Are there other possible variations on the abbreviation of V-te shimau?Recently I heard something that sounded like "なっちまった" where I would have expected なってしまった or なっちゃった. Would this be common?

    EDIT: I believe I have also just heard "言っちまった", in the same vein.
     
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    Arashi

    Member
    English
    Other attitudes are; finality, regret, reserved opposition and so on.
    Would there be better ways to convey these emotions toward an action or would shimau be sufficient and clear enough (assuming the context made it clear)?

    Are there other possible variations on the abbreviation of V-te shimau?Recently I heard something that sounded like "なっちまった" where I would have expected なってしまった or なっちゃった. Would this be common?

    EDIT: I believe I have also just heard "言っちまった", in the same vein.
    I believe nacchatta is simply the more informal form of natte-shimatta, unless I'm mistaken (which I might be). I think male adults are more tended to use nacchimatta than nacchatta (again, I could be wrong about that, too).
     

    lrosa

    Senior Member
    English - Ireland
    I believe nacchatta is simply the more informal form of natte-shimatta, unless I'm mistaken (which I might be). I think male adults are more tended to use nacchimatta than nacchatta (again, I could be wrong about that, too).
    Indeed, I realise I only heard males using the nacchimatta form, while both females and males used nacchatta

    Other attitudes are; finality, regret, reserved opposition and so on.

    Would there be better ways to convey these emotions toward an action or would shimau be sufficient and clear enough (assuming the context made it clear)?
    I think -te shimau is a very effective way of conveying these emotions:

    さびしいねぇ、犬がいなくなっちゃって。。
     
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    Ectab

    Senior Member
    Arabic-Iraq
    Ossu
    Long time no ask
    How to use this verb?
    I was told its meaning is to colse, to finish... but I can't get why it is used, because there is no translation for it when it is used
    Doko e icchatta no kanaa?
    icchatta=itte shimatta... right?
    what is the difference between this and:
    doko e itta no kanaa?

    omae ga kuru mae ni naku natte shimatta yo!
    He disappeared before you come!

    could you explain it for me?
    thank you
     

    DaylightDelight

    Senior Member
    Japanese - Tokyo
    V-te shimau and its variations (chau, chimau) have two meanings: completion and regret.
    Between "doko e icchatta no kanaa?" and "doko e itta no kanaa?", the latter is more neutral and the first one conveys the speaker's regret/frustration better.

    omae ga kuru mae ni inaku natte shimatta yo!
    In this case, shimatta can mean either completion, regret, or a combination of both.
    • He's gone before you came! (completion)
    • I'm afraid he's gone before you came! (regret and completion)
     

    frequency

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Doko e icchatta no kanaa?
    icchatta=itte shimatta... right?
    Yes, roughly.
    what is the difference between this and: doko e itta no kanaa?
    Doko e icchatta no kanaa? vs doko e itta no kanaa?

    They are almost the same because both mean something has gone away. But if you say icchatta, it has your feeling of "OMG" (TωT)


    omae ga kuru mae ni naku natte shimatta yo!
    He disappeared before you come!
    Who or what nakunatta?

    According to you, he nakunatta. This, person + nakunaru, means that he dies (2). You're using the past tense, so you're saying that he has died.

    Or, I ate your chocolate bar before you come.
    I frequency say to you Ectab, Omae ga kurumae ni sore ha (=chocolate bar ha) nakunatte shimatta yo!

    I ate it, so the bar disappeared. You can omit "sore ha" if the sentence is understandable without it.
     
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    Ectab

    Senior Member
    Arabic-Iraq
    I still can not get it?
    can you give me examples of your own so that I can understand better this shimau?
     

    frequency

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    I was told its meaning is to close, to finish...
    Yes, good. "shimau" basically denotes completion. This completion makes some side effects.

    can you give me examples of your own so that I can understand better this shimau?
    When I say Ectab's chocolate bar wo tabechatta:

    a) You say "I can't find my chocolate bar in the fridge." "Ah! tabechatta yo!" (surprise = I didn't know the bar was yours.)
    b) I want to lose my weight, but you gave me a chocolate bar. "Tabechatta yo (TωT)"

    If I say "tabechau",
    c) "Oh lol He's not here now. I'll eat his chocolate bar." (Complete it before he comes!)

    omae ga kuru mae ni naku natte shimatta yo!
    ~~shimatta just works fine with ~~mae ni. "Omae ga kuru mae ni tabechatta yo!" (Completion, but no side effects)


    おまけ:
    For example, itte shimau is iku + te + shimau = itteshimau
    行ってしまう=行く+て+しまう

    This て is a jyoshi. This shimau is used as a hojyo-doushi.
    Memorise it as "teshimau"―tabeteshimau, kiteshimau. Don't confuse it with te-form.

    And you know, itteshimau = icchau (casual)
     
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