Thanks very much, Wandering (¡qué bien me viene ahora una inyección de moral!). I just know the theory and have a little bit of practice, but the three of you have my theory and lots of practice .He hecho 'copy/paste' de un sitio English Grammar Secrets which confirms that blasita was right to be brave!
You've got a point there. Of all the possibilities, I agree that "He demanded that she were there" seems by far the least likely. What a shame that we, in general, (including myself and excluding you) are flummoxed by our few surviving subjunctives!You certainly hear phrases of the type using 'apologised' frequently in UK English. Although grammarians would say it is incorrect, English 'rules' are based on usage, not theory ~ we don't have anything like the French Academy!
Food for thought: would you say, 'He demanded that she were [past subj. as ibid stated] there at 7 o'clock'? No! You would say, 'He demanded that she be there...' or, informally, 'He demanded that she was there at 7.' This suggests it's not a past subjunctive but more like the French 'concordance of tenses' and I agree that it doesn't really jar the English ear.
Gracias a todos. Saludos.
Just one more flummoxing question: What about the negative of your subjunctive?You've got a point there. Of all the possibilities, I agree that "He demanded that she were there" seems by far the least likely. What a shame that we, in general, (including myself and excluding you) are flummoxed by our few surviving subjunctives!
"The man demanded that she apologize": apologize/apologise is subjunctive; apologized/apologized is past indicative and not appropriate in the context.Hi,
I don't know why the following sentence is not correct:
"That man demanded that she apologised"
Why it is not correct?
By the way, is correct to say:
"That man demanded that she apologises"
"That man demanded that she apologise"
Amigo capitas,Just one more flummoxing question: What about the negative of your subjunctive?
He demanded that she should not eat apples.
He demanded that she not eat apples.
He demanded that she do/did not eat apples.?
He demanded that she does/did not eat apples. ?
Does thus subjunctive work as a bare infinitival?
Well put."The man demanded that she apologize": apologize/apologise is subjunctive; apologized/apologized is past indicative and not appropriate in the context.
"apologises" is present indicative. It does not logically combine with "the man demanded."
The sentence is quite literally "el hombre le exigió que pidiera/pidiese perdón." It's one of the relatively few cases in which both Spanish and English use subjunctive in the dependent clause. English subjunctive does not distinguish between past and present:
The man demands that she apologize/apologise.
The man demanded that she apologize/apologise.
I am by now more than convinced, after reading all your arguments, that the past should not be used in He demanded that she apologised, but I'm not sure if I understand what you are saying here about the subjunctive being timeless. I have probably misinterpreted your words, but if you are saying we hardly use the past subjunctive what about I wish I had, I wish I were, if I had, if I were?English subjunctives are timeless. The "present" subjunctive acts something like an infinitive and does not usually reflect the tense of other verbs around it. Like the infinitive, it usually suggests futurity, i.e. something not yet true at the time in question. (In the sentence in question, she had not apologized, and was not apologizing, at the time the man made his demand.)
The only exception that comes to mind is that English sometimes allows a present subjunctive after whether or even after if, and that present subjunctive can shift to past subjunctive in a past tense context:
Whether that be true or not, I have made up my mind.
Whether that were true or not, I had made up my mind.
This sort of thing is rare.
Sorry, I know Inib is not asking me, and the others will answer properly. But, in my opinion, both are fine.He demanded that she be puntual (present subjunctive)
I wish I were with you now (past subjunctive)
Hi inib,I'm sorry to be a pain. I'm sure it must be because I've missed something in one of your explanations. Let me just check if you agree with this:
He demanded that she be puntual (present subjunctive)
I wish I were with you now (past subjunctive)
Is this correct?
You´re not getting on mine, for sure. I think thanks to you this has turned out to be a very interesting discussion.I hope I'm not getting on anyone's nerves with my insistence (or thickness!), but I would like to be 100% clear about this so as not to make any more mistakes.
I actually wasn´t comparing English and Spanish, but if it helps you, I´m more than happy .Blasita,
Sorry I forgot to mention part of your contribution. Yes, should is the easiest way to express a lot of situations which would carry a subjunctive in Spanish, and may in other situations. If I had stuck to them, I wouldn't be in this mess now!!!
You're not getting on my nerves! This is interesting.but how would you distinguish be from were in the following examples, if one is not present subjunctive and the other past subjunctive (however much it refers to the present)?
He demanded that she be punctual
I wish he were here
I hope I'm not getting on anyone's nerves with my insistence (or thickness!), but I would like to be 100% clear about this so as not to make any more mistakes.