The –ski ending (Slavic) and –ish/-isch/-sk ending (Germanic)

Ben Jamin

Senior Member
Polish
I have been wondering if the –ski ending (Slavic) and –ish/-isch/-isk ending (Germanic) are cognates developed from a common PIE root or a loan (presumably from Germanic to Slavic).
 
  • Perseas

    Senior Member
    Greek
    If they have developed from a common PIE root, I can add the Greek -ικός, masc. /-ική, fem. /-ικό(ν), neut.
     

    Ironicus

    Senior Member
    English & Swahili - East Africa
    Of course! And Sanskrit -ik (with augmentation of the preceding vowel, e.g. Veda -> veidik) too.
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    And Latin -icus along with its Romance and English (-ic, via French -ique) cognates. :)
     

    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    There is no 's' in the Greek -ικος or Latin -icus. There are however words that have apparently the ending-iscus in Latin, but I am not sure whether the 's' here belongs to the suffix or the stem, or is an infix.
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    There is no 's' in the Greek -ικος or Latin -icus.
    You are right. None of the proposed cognates by Perseas, Ironicus and Outsider are correct. The cognate suffix to Greek -ικ- and Latin -ic- is -ig in German and -y in English (< OE -iġ). According to Grimm's law, the expected Germanic reflex of -ik is -ih with allophonic realization -iç. This corresponds to the modern German pronunciation and the Old English ġ is a voiced ç.

    But German -isch, English -ish has a Greek cognate: The diminutive suffix -ισκος.
     
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    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    You are right. None of the proposed cognates by Perseas, Ironicus and Outsider are correct. The cognate suffix to Greek -ικ- and Latin -ic- is -ig in German and -y in English (< OE -iġ). According to Grimm's law, the expected Germanic reflex of -ik is -ih with allophonic realization -iç. This corresponds to the modern German pronunciation and the Old English ġ is a voiced ç.

    But German -isch, English -ish has a Greek cognate: The diminutive suffix -ισκος.
    Thank you! Then the Latin -iscus must also be a cognate, or a Greek loan. But what about the Slavic -ski which has been used predominantly to form adjectives from proper nouns (but not only). A cognate or a loan?
     

    origumi

    Senior Member
    N/A
    -ic - adjective suffix, "having to do with, having the nature of, being, made of, caused by, similar to" (in chemistry, indicating a higher valence than names in -ous), from Fr. -ique and directly from L. -icus, which in many cases represents Gk. -ikos "in the manner of; pertaining to." From PIE *-(i)ko, which also yielded Slavic -isku, adjectival suffix indicating origin, the source of the -sky (Rus. -skii) in many surnames.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=-ic
     

    Perseas

    Senior Member
    Greek
    According to Babiniotis' dictionary -ικος,-ή,-ό is a derivational suffix of Anc. and Mod. Greek, which comes from I.E suffix *-ko-, plus vowel -i- (hence *i-ko-) from stems ending in -i-. Also, -ικός- passed as suffix in foreign languages, cf. Engish -ic(eg. fanat-ic), French -ique (eg. prat-ique), German -isch (eg. stürm-isch).
     

    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    According to Babiniotis' dictionary -ικος,-ή,-ό is a derivational suffix of Anc. and Mod. Greek, which comes from I.E suffix *-ko-, plus vowel -i- (hence *i-ko-) from stems ending in -i-. Also, -ικός- passed as suffix in foreign languages, cf. Engish -ic(eg. fanat-ic), French -ique (eg. prat-ique), German -isch (eg. stürm-isch).
    According to the link supplied by Berndf the suffix in germanic languages (-ish, -isch, -(i)sk) originated from old Germanic ‘iskaz’.
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    -ικός > -ic > -isch does not convince me, because the mentionned German ending was once pronounced -isk in all the Germanic languages (and still in Swedish, for example).


    The Slavic -ski seems to come from a former -iskъ, at least at the first glance, because it palatalizes the previous consonant. E.g.:

    Praga > ..... prag+iskъ > ..... pragьskъ > ..... pražský (in Czech)
    Čechъ > .... čechьskъ > ..... češský > .... český (in Czech)
    Grěkъ > .... grěkьskъ > ..... grěčskъ (hence grěčeskij in Russian) ....

    also bogъ ... božský, drugъ ... družský etc.
     
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    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    -ικός > -ic > -isch does not convince me, because the mentionned German ending was once pronounced -isk in all the Germanic languages (and still in Swedish, for example).
    I agree. Plus it ignores that -ic has a different Germanic cognate, as I wrote in #6. See -y (2) here.

    I also find it interesting that Babiniotis considers Latin -ic- as a loan from Greek -ικ- rather than as a cognate. We find the two suffixes -ισκος and -ικος Greek. If -ικος is derived from PIE *-ko- as Babiniotis states than -ικος and -ισκος might well have the same eventual origin as PIE *-ko- is also a diminutive suffix. The idea that Greek -ισκος, Proto-Slavic*-iskъ and Proto-Germanic *-iskaz should be direct cognates seems highly plausible to me. Could the /s/ be a kind of palatalization effect between /i/ and /k/?
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    ... The idea that Greek -ισκος, Proto-Slavic*-iskъ and Proto-Germanic *-iskaz should be direct cognates seems highly plausible to me. Could the /s/ be a kind of palatalization effect between /i/ and /k/?
    Also to me. As to the palatalization between /i/ and /k/, I could also imagin that *-isko is a compound suffix, "something" plus -ko ...

    For curiosity, in the Slavic languages there is also an augmentative suffix -isko, though I don't know if present in all the Slavic languages.
     
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