The Kayas

[Encolpius]

Hello, I speak no Turkish, if there is a Turkish family: Kaya, what do you call the family in Turkish? The Kayas in Turkish? Is there a general rule how to create family names? Just a simple plural? Thanks.

 

[Rallino]

If Kaya is a family name, we say Kayalar.

But this is rare. We usually use one person's name and add -giller. If someone's name is Kaan, for example, you can say Kaangiller. (or just Kaanlar is also fine.)

 

[Encolpius]

I think I am lost, I do not understand. Why is Kayalar rare? What does -giller mean?

 

[Rallino]

Kayalar is the plural of "Kaya".

-gil is a suffix that indicates the house & the family of a person. Think of the French chez or the Italian da.

 

[spiraxo]

Kaya ailesi may work too. However we don't know what situation you have in mind.

 

[Encolpius]

So, if it is e.g. an American family, The Simpsons, I checked it on Wikipedia and it is Simpsonlar, so a simple plural.
My dictionary says -gil means family, of course not like aile. Fantasctic you have a suffix for family. Is -gil from Arabic?

 

[LeBro]

Szia!

As for “-gil(ler)”;

Pétergil(ler) ile tatile çıkacağız– Péterékkel fogunk nyaralni.

So it can be said to be the equivalent of Hungarian “-ék”, which is attached to (sur)names. It is used either as “-gil” or “-giller”, no difference in meaning.

It is mainly used in spoken, everday language and the plural ending “-lAr” has been recently used more and/or in formal language instead . Besides, I hear it less compared to the old days.

Another example from my childhood;

Annemgil akşam size oturmaya gelecek - Az anyukám (és az apukám vagy ha valaki más is van, akkor ő is) vendégbe mennek este hozzátok (remélem, hogy jól írtam).

So we can say that it is used with personal names and kinship terms to denote family (or possibly a group of friends) but the plural ending has more or less replaced it. Accordingly, a small frequency list of the possibilities can be;

Kayalar (Kayáék (lit. Kayák))
Kaya ailesi (A Kaya család)
Kayagil(ler) (Kayáék)

Is -gil from Arabic?

Its origin is still debated as far as I know but don't think that it is of Arabic.

 

[rarabara]

I think I am lost, I do not understand. Why is Kayalar rare? What does -giller mean?

Kayalar is generally not being used for family names (but rarely used,for instance it can be seen on apartment names to be deemed as family name (e.g. "Kayalar düğüne davet edilmedi" or "Kayalar apartmanı"). though,it is commonly used in spoken turkish.
meanwhile,I am almost sure that "-gil " is not an arabic supplement.
because,"g" is not originally an arabic letter.
(it is neither in the conformity originally with ج nor, غ )
it is rare,because it is in spoken turkish. (you can also see in some novels,but not exactly in academic literatures.or in serious cases.
I think I can examplify that case in english.
we use wanna in spoken english, but it is rare in serious actions.
kaangiller is also rare and it takes its place in spoken turkish.

 

[Encolpius]

Hello Lebor, it really sounds fantastic. I have been thinking about the Hungarian suffix -ék, but first I thought it does not mean "just a simple" family, actually I could not explain to a stranger what it means. Now now you write it exist in Turkish, too. Wonderful.
So annemgil means maybe more : anyukámék? did you want to write that, right?
That's why you guys mention here a simple -lar/-ler is rare. But I had just checked "The Simpons" Simpsonlar so could it be "Simpsongiller" Just like it is not "Simpsonok" [Simpsons] in Hungarian but Simpsonék.
Thanks.

I was asking about the Arabic origin and now I am more curious if something like our -ék and your -gil exists in other languages.

 

[LeBro]

Hello Encolpius!

So annemgil means maybe more : anyukámék? did you want to write that, right?

Yes, you are right. It's the exact equivalence of "anyukámék" in Turkish but I just don't know if "anyukámék" is used in Hungarian.

I had just checked "The Simpons" Simpsonlar so could it be "Simpsongiller"

It may have as well been named "Simpsongiller" but they simply prefered "Simpsonlar". But I remember a cartoon which is called Jetgiller (A Jetson család/The Jetsons).

I am more curious if something like our -ék and your -gil exists in other languages.

Most probably, given the number of languages spoken throughout the world. Would love to hear if you find out any.

 

[Encolpius]

Hello Lebro!

Maybe we should start a Hungarian-Turkish thread, you seem to understand nice Hungarian.
So annemgil is "anyukámék" in Hungarian. Of course we use it a lot.
Hungarian: tesó /brother/ -- tesóm /my brother/ -- tesómék /my brother's family/ -- would you say: kardeşimgil

 

[jazyk]

Japanese has a suffix, tachi, with the same function. Okaasantachi, for example, is a mother and whoever is with her.

 

[Encolpius]

Oh, very interesting comment indeed.
How would you translate Okaasantachi into Magyar? Nagyiék?

 

[LeBro]

Hello!

Maybe we should start a Hungarian-Turkish thread, you seem to understand nice Hungarian.

Sure, it would be great!

tesómék /my brother's family/ -- would you say: kardeşimgil?

Yes, it is "kardeşimgil". Some other examples, then, are:

ablamgil: a növéremék
abimgil: a bátyámék

 

[Encolpius]

Good morning!

Is it possible to use -gil with "neighbour" in Turkish, too? Something like komşugil?
And if so (that would be beautiful ) can you remember other words in Turkish, I cannot in Hungarian.

 

[Rallino]

You can say komşumgil. With the possessive, (my neighbour), it works.