The man out of the bog

Roxane66

New Member
Belgium, french
hello everybody!

I am not sure to understand this sentence: "you can take the man out of the bog but never the bog out of the man". It is a question that I have to discuss for a course about identities. More precisely, I have to discuss it in terms of the relationships between self and social and personal identities.

Does someone understand what "bog" mean in this context?

Thanks a lot!
 
  • ocid

    Senior Member
    France French
    bog is a general term of racial contempt( souvent utilisé contre les irlandais) quelle honte!! bog= tourbière
     

    Roxane66

    New Member
    Belgium, french
    Merci!

    Mais comment comprend-tu ce terme dans le contexte? Parce je ne vois pas vraiment le lien entre la proposition et la question à laquelle je dois répondre en terme de relations entre le soi et les identités sociales et personelles...

    Merci encore!!
    ;-)
     

    Roxane66

    New Member
    Belgium, french
    Merci beaucoup!!!

    Je n'arrive pas à trouver la traduction du proverbe... Puis-je me fier à cette traduction? Existerait-il un site sur lequel je pourrais trouver une explication plus approfondie?

    En tout cas, milles merci!
     

    Louox

    New Member
    England English
    hello,
    in my opinion the phrase is a metaphor for the assumption that even if the 'man' is taken from 'the bog', referring perhaps to their birthplace, upbringing, surroundings, family etc...you are influenced by your surroundings and where you grow up and you can never escape this, you will always carry this around with you.
    I think its the whole 'nature and nurture' question.

    i could be totally wrong however?!
     

    piloulac

    Senior Member
    français France ♂
    I agree with Louox.
    Un proverbe québéquois propose cette approche des rapports humains.
    "Fais du bien à un cochon et il viendra chier sur ton perron."

    Pessimiste mais amusant.
     

    Topsie

    Senior Member
    English-UK
    hello,
    in my opinion the phrase is a metaphor for the assumption that even if the 'man' is taken from 'the bog', referring perhaps to their birthplace, upbringing, surroundings, family etc...you are influenced by your surroundings and where you grow up and you can never escape this, you will always carry this around with you.
    I think its the whole 'nature and nurture' question.

    i could be totally wrong however?!

    You're quite right!
    A variation on the same theme: "You can take the boy out of the Bronx, but you can't take the Bronx out of the boy"
     

    Roxane66

    New Member
    Belgium, french
    Merci pour ces explications, j'ai eu l'occasion de parler de cette proposition avec un Irlandais et effectivement, il s'agit bien d'un proverbe irlandais qui signifie que l'on peut sortir l'homme de sa campagne, de sa classe... mais son passé le rattrapera toujours. Nos origines sont ancrées au plus profond de nous et ne nous lacherons jamais.
    Dans le cadre de mon cours, je dois justement argumenter le contraire!

    Merci encore!!!
     

    wildan1

    Moderando ma non troppo (French-English, CC Mod)
    English - USA
    You're quite right!
    A variation on the same theme: "You can take the boy out of the Bronx, but you can't take the Bronx out of the boy"

    Or you can take the girl out of the country but not the country out of the girl.

    One hears many variations on this--it's not specifically anti-Irish, and IMO it's not necessarily pejorative--just a folksy way to say people are fundamentally who they originally are.
     
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