The most interesting book for me

Jawel7

Senior Member
Turkish
Hello everyone.

My question is about whether the following two sentences are the same or not.

1-) I am talking about the most interesting book for me.

2-) I am talking about the book which is the most interesting for me.

Are the bold parts completely the same?

If they are the same, Does it mean that the long form of "the most interesting book for me" is equal to "the book which is the most interesting for me"?

Thank you very much.
 
  • lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Yes, they both mean the same, although version 2 might sound more natural with “to me”.

    There are also several other ways of saying it, such as:

    I’m talking about the book which, to me/for me/from my point of view/in my opinion, is the most interesting.
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Yes, they both mean the same, although version 2 might sound more natural with “to me”.

    There are also several other ways of saying it, such as:

    I’m talking about the book which, to me/for me/from my point of view/in my opinion, is the most interesting.
    But are they also correct for the following one?

    I am talking about the most interesting book to me.
    @lingobingo It doesn't seem to be fine to me.
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    No. As I said, it’s the other sentence that can use “to”.
    How about changing "for" to "to do something"? Is that also okay?
    Example;

    - I am talking about the ready machine to run. (the machine which is ready to run)
    - I am talking about the enough-qualified books for me to improve myself.(the books which are qualified enough for me to improve myself) @lingobingo
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    The machine is (ready to run). That doesn't make it a machine of the kind "ready."
    "Enough-qualified" is not a good adjective formation and "books which are qualified enough" makes no sense.
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    The machine is (ready to run). That doesn't make it a machine of the kind "ready."
    "Enough-qualified" is not a good adjective formation and "books which are qualified enough" makes no sense.
    Actually, I didn't expect them to be correct. I also think that they are wrong but if it is true "I am talking about the most interesting book for me.",
    I thought that they should be correct as well.

    They said: " (adjective)The most interesting book for me " =" the book which is the most interesting for me."
    If it is like that, why not this one "The ready machine for work" = "the machine which is ready for work."
    From the perspective of substructure, there is no difference. @Myridon
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    They said: " (adjective)The most interesting book for me " =" the book which is the most interesting for me."
    If it is like that, why not this one "The ready machine for work" = "the machine which is ready for work."
    From the perspective of substructure, there is no difference. @Myridon
    If you create nonsense sentences purely based on English structure and rules, that doesn't make them actual sentences that are considered to be part of the English language.
    You might as well say that "The ready machine for work" is like "The banana machine for love". The machine which is banana for love.
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    If you create nonsense sentences purely based on English structure and rules, that doesn't make them actual sentences that are considered to be part of the English language.
    You might as well say that "The ready machine for work" is like "The banana machine for love". The machine which is banana for love.
    Hehe :) Thanks for making me laugh. It was really funny :) Maybe we can say that the adjective must be "the most / -st".
    How about this one? "It is the most willing student for study"
    Sounds good to me.
    "The most perfect car for speed", "the best car for travel in safe", "the best-designed project for money"..
    How about them? @Myridon
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Hehe :) Thanks for making me laugh. It was really funny :) Maybe we can say that the adjective must be "the most / -st".
    How about this one? "It is the most willing student for study"
    Sounds good to me.
    "The most perfect car for speed", "the best car for travel in safe", "the best-designed project for money"..
    How about them? @Myridon
    1 Do you mean that "He/she is the student who is most willing to study." or "He/she is the student who is most willing to be studied (experimented on)." Yours just won't work at all and you have referred to a person as "it."
    2 It is the most perfect car for speed. is not horrible, but I'm not sure what it means. It is the car that is the most perfectly designed for the purpose of speed?
    3 It is the best car for travel in safety. It is the safest car? It is the best car for traveling in safety through hazardous environments?
    4 It is the best-designed project for money. I don't know what this means. The project produces money? The project is designed to be sold for money? Try to think about what 2 means and see if this one fits any of those patterns.

    You're just randomly placing pegs in holes without checking the sizes and shapes.
     

    heypresto

    Senior Member
    English - England
    "It is the most willing student for study" :cross: He/she is the student most willing to study. :tick:
    "The most perfect car for speed" :cross: The best/perfect car for driving fast in. :tick:
    "the best car for travel in safe" :cross: The safest car to drive. :tick:
    "the best-designed project for money" :cross: :confused: I can't think of an alternative for this.

    There may be other sentences to the ones I've offered, but none of yours work I'm afraid.


    Cross-posted.
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    "It is the most willing student for study" :cross: He/she is the student most willing to study. :tick:
    "The most perfect car for speed" :cross: The best/perfect car for driving fast in. :tick:
    "the best car for travel in safe" :cross: The safest car to drive. :tick:
    "the best-designed project for money" :cross: :confused: I can't think of an alternative for this.

    There may be other sentences to the ones I've offered, but none of yours work I'm afraid.


    Cross-posted.
    Sometimes you are using "to do" and sometimes using "for".
    "The best car for driving fast in" & "The best car to drive."
    Why does this change exist?
    Additionally,
    Why is "the best car for travel in safety" wrong?
     

    sound shift

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Hello everyone.

    My question is about whether the following two sentences are the same or not.

    1-) I am talking about the most interesting book for me.

    2-) I am talking about the book which is the most interesting for me.

    Are the bold parts completely the same?

    If they are the same, Does it mean that the long form of "the most interesting book for me" is equal to "the book which is the most interesting for me"?

    Thank you very much.
    Hello,

    Because you haven't given us a context, there is a chance that neither sentence is suitable. When would you use these sentences? Are you talking about the most interesting book of all, or the most interesting book in a group of books?
     

    heypresto

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Why does this change exist?
    Because there are often several different ways to say the same thing.

    Additionally,
    Why is "the best car for travel in safety" wrong?
    You haven't asked about this before. It doesn't sound right to me. It needs to be 'travelling'.

    Myridon, in post #13, has given you a context in which 'the best car for travelling in safety' would work.
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Because there are often several different ways to say the same thing.



    You haven't asked about this before. It doesn't sound right to me. It needs to be 'travelling'.

    Myridon, in post #13, has given you a context in which 'the best car for travelling in safety' would work.
    Travel is already a noun. Why do we have to add - ing? (travel has a noun form)
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Because that's how we would say it.

    if you want to use 'travel', you could say 'It's the best car in which to travel safely/in safety'.
    Sorry, I am just trying to understand what you mean exactly.
    Does all mean that we "have" to use "to+verb1" or "for+verbing" ?
    Instead of "The best car for travel in safety", I have to say: "the best car to travel in safety",
    Instead of "The best movie for scientifical information", I have to say: "the best movie to get scientifical information",
    Instead of "The most willing student for homework", I have to say: "The most willing student to do homework." @heypresto
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    You're trying to make a rule that applies to all verbs and all nouns from a single example without regard to meaning.
    As nouns, "travel" (the general concept of travel) and "traveling" (the process of travel) have different meanings and different usages.
    You want to be safe while you are actually traveling not while you are contemplating the concept of travel.
    "Scientifical" is an archaic variation of "scientific" so you shouldn't say either of those. Movies are generally the worst way way to learn science so why would you use that as an example? Regardless, it would be much clearer to say something like "The best movie for obtaining scientific information" or "The best movie for learning about science".
    You have to say "the student who is the most willing to do homework." and even then it's unusual. What's the rest of the sentence? What are you trying to communicate?
    The purpose of language is to communicate ideas not to form random, meaningless strings of words.
     

    heypresto

    Senior Member
    English - England
    "The best car for travel in safety." :cross:
    The best car to travel in safety." :cross:
    'It's the best car in which to travel safely/in safety.' :tick:

    "The best movie for scientifical scientific information." :tick:
    "The best movie to get scientifical scientific information." :cross:
    "The best movie from which to get scientific information." :tick:
    "The best movie to get scientific information from." :tick:

    "The most willing student for homework." :cross:
    "The most willing student to do homework." :cross:

    The student most willing to do homework. :tick:

    Bear in mind that none of these are complete sentences. The sentences that they might be part of could require different constructions or prepositions. But we have no sentence or context to go on here.

    And bear in mind that many of these, while grammatically correct, are not idiomatic or natural.


    Cross-posted.
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    "The best car for travel in safety." :cross:
    The best car to travel in safety." :cross:
    'It's the best car in which to travel safely/in safety.' :tick:

    "The best movie for scientifical scientific information." :tick:
    "The best movie to get scientifical scientific information." :cross:
    "The best movie from which to get scientific information." :tick:
    "The best movie to get scientific information from." :tick:

    "The most willing student for homework." :cross:
    "The most willing student to do homework." :cross:

    The student most willing to do homework. :tick:

    Bear in mind that none of these are complete sentences. The sentences that they might be part of could require different constructions or prepositions. But we have no sentence or context to go on here.

    And bear in mind that many of these, while grammatically correct, are not idiomatic or natural.


    Cross-posted.
    Are their longs form like following ones?

    "Movie which is the best for scientific information"
    "Car which is the best to travel in"?

    If your answer is yes, I would like to ask whether it is always true or not.

    "A safe area for children" =? Area which is safe for children
    or = Area which is safe and which is for children?
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    If your answer is yes, I would like to ask whether it is always true or not.

    "A safe area for children" =? Area which is safe for children
    or = Area which is safe and which is for children?
    Language is a subject in which it is usually wrong to say something is "always true."

    "A safe area for children" is an area which is safe for children, an area in which children are safe.

    An area which is safe for children may be very unsafe for other things so it is not "an area which is safe."
    An area which is safe for children may not be "an area which is for children."
    A playground is an area for children, but an empty room would also be a safe area for children.
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Language is a subject in which it is usually wrong to say something is "always true."

    "A safe area for children" is an area which is safe for children, an area in which children are safe.

    An area which is safe for children may be very unsafe for other things so it is not "an area which is safe."
    An area which is safe for children may not be "an area which is for children."
    A playground is an area for children, but an empty room would also be a safe area for children.
    I see. Indeed, you have just made me realize the correct way to think about them.
    "For children" refers "safe", not the noun "area". --> "A safe(for children) area"
    "The most interesting book for me".
    "For me" doesn't refer to "book" but refers to "most interesting". --> "The most interesting(for me) book"

    But how about "Enough respect for myself to know when it is time to walk away." (from Oxford Dictionary)
    How can we read it?
    "Respect which is enough for myself to know when it is time to walk away." ?? "doesn't make sense to me."
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    Language is a subject in which it is usually wrong to say something is "always true."

    "A safe area for children" is an area which is safe for children, an area in which children are safe.

    An area which is safe for children may be very unsafe for other things so it is not "an area which is safe."
    An area which is safe for children may not be "an area which is for children."
    A playground is an area for children, but an empty room would also be a safe area for children.
    I would like to ask something to you.
    Some of my British teachers said that "a safe area for children" can technically be understood/read in two ways.

    1-) An area which is safe for children
    or
    2-) An area which is safe and is for children.
    Both possible. It can change by context.

    I think that they can be right because your answer, "A safe area for children" is an area which is safe for children, an area in which children are safe.", doesn't work every time.
    Because saying "I am talking about a happy man in front of the building" cannot be understood like "a man who is happy in front of the building".
    It is understood like "A man who is happy and who is in front of the building".
    Or,
    "Important questions about my project" = "Questions which are important and which are about my project"

    They said:
    "We usually tend to combine prepositional phrases(for children) with adjectives used before nouns such as "Important questions", "A safe area", however, if it makes sense to consider them separately or it doesn't make sense to consider them together, it can also be considered separately(not a man who is happy in front of the building. It doesn't make sense at all. However, it makes sense to consider it like "A man who is happy and who is in front of the building. "

    Do you agree with my British teachers on the grammatical possibility to read them in two ways? @lingobingo @Myridon
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    The obvious way to say all those things is as you describe — “We usually tend to combine prepositional phrases with adjectives used before nouns.”

    A safe area for children
    A happy man in front of a building
    Important questions about my project​

    They can also all be expressed using a relative clause:

    A children’s area that’s safe
    A man in front of a building who’s happy
    Questions about my project that are important​
     

    Jawel7

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    The obvious way to say all those things is as you describe — “We usually tend to combine prepositional phrases with adjectives used before nouns.”

    A safe area for children
    A happy man in front of a building
    Important questions about my project​

    Only the first one lends itself to being expressed differently: A children’s area that’s safe.
    So you also agree with them on that topic.
    The first one can mean either "an area which is safe for children" or "A children's area which is safe" ?
     
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