The post <denies> Brown [football (soccer)]

bearfreak

Senior Member
Javanese
This is football (soccer). This sentence is strange because I know that "deny" means to block. Then, if I rephrase the sentence "the post denies Brown" to "the post blocks Brown", this would sound weird. I have no idea why. So, could you help me understand this?

82' The post denies Brown with a curling shot from the edge of the area.
Twitter
 
  • Szkot

    Senior Member
    UK English
    The tweet does sound odd, but leaving aside the bit about the curling shot, 'deny' means 'prevent from scoring'. The post does not block Brown - it blocks his shot.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    It's Twitter. Don't expect good grammar. Try "The post denies Brown's curling shot from the edge of the area."
     

    bearfreak

    Senior Member
    Javanese
    Thanks all. I have seen it a lot at the gurdian, the telegraph, etc. Even when I'm watching live football on the telly, I see the player is actually shooting, for example, on 77 minutes: "Vardy buries a shot at goal from range, with De Gea doing well to deny the Leicester striker", then I go check the action on sites, the commentator simply says "deny" instead of "deny...shot". So, is it common enough to drop "shot" in football reports/commentaries?
     

    bearfreak

    Senior Member
    Javanese
    Yes, Andygc. Football commentators aren't articulate, a lot of what they say is bad English, right? And most of the time they're just trying to avoid saying kick all the time from what I've noted. Also, in the UK sports commentators often use a cliché.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    A look at google suggests that posts usually deny players rather than shots.
    In which case it would be "The post denies Brown his curling shot from the edge of the area." Either way, the post doesn't deny anything with a curling shot. I've yet to see a goalpost kick a ball.
     

    pickarooney

    Senior Member
    English (Ireland)
    'The post denies Brown' = 'Brown is denied a goal by the (intervention of) the goalkeeper/post'

    It sounds perfectly normal to me but maybe I've just been hearing it so long it's become a cliché.

    ETA: I hadn't actually read the full tweet (shows my attention span!). It's just shorthand for two separate, successive actions, Brown hits a curling shot and he is denied by the post. Perfectly fine in a live-tweet update on a fast-moving game.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Yes, Andygc. Football commentators aren't articulate, a lot of what they say is bad English, right? And most of the time they're just trying to avoid saying kick all the time from what I've noted. Also, in the UK sports commentators often use a cliché.
    No matter how "bad" the "grammar" or "English", you still understood what was intended - the shot hit the post and the kicker was denied a goal. Right? It's a simple case of anthropomrphism anthropomorphism - WordReference.com Dictionary of English. I would have thought that by now you were used to this kind of "English" from live soccer commentators who need to use text rather than audio ....
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    'The post denies Brown' = 'Brown is denied a goal by the (intervention of) the goalkeeper/post'
    There's no argument about that - with reference to both the grammar and the meaning. It's the "with a curling shot" that provides the example of execrable grammar.
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    I am still puzzled as to why bearfreak is expecting good English in this type of situation. Doing a live text stream as a commentator on a soccer game has a few challenges ( :eek: :eek: ) (think: simultaneous interpreter from visual to language who also has to type the text and make it sound interesting and keep up with action going on in the game). To find a sports commentator with perfect grammar and eloquence is rare enough but to expect one also to meet those challenges is tough - anyone who is likely to be able to do all that is not likely to be doing streaming text commentary but is likely to have a more interesting and better paid job:D So the result is a compromise in one of the requirements. The prime requirement would seem to be - getting the sense across of what is going on in the game while keeping up with the action; grammar and eloquence can suffer, so as long as you know that Brown made a curling shot from the edge of the area but hit the post, who cares?

    Not trying to justify the grammar but think of the object of "denies" as the text in brackets

    82' The post denies (Brown with a curling shot from the edge of the area).

    Edit: OK, my comments were about streaming text commentators for those unable to view the games. I just looked at the OP's twitter link - even less reason to expect good English !
     
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