the reason for which he doesn't / the reason he doesn't come here for

Julianus

Senior Member
Korean
Hello.

I have learend very important things to me through the previous question : http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2504923

And now I wonder whether the same principle is applied to the following sentences.

1a.Tell me the reason why he doesn't come here. as far as I know, 'why' can be replaced with 'for which'. then,
b. Tell me the reason for which he doesn't come here. as far as I know, 'for' can be positioned at the end of the sentence. then,
c. Tell me the reason which he doesn't come here for. 'which' can be replaced with 'that'. then,
d. Tell me the reason that he doesn't come here for. 'why' in sentence (a) can be omitted. then,
e. Tell me the reason that he doesn't come here. 'why' in sentence (a) can be replaced with 'that'. then,
f. Tell me the reason he doesn't come here. 'wich' or 'that in sentences (c, d) can be omitted. then,
g. Tell me the reason he doesn't come here for.

Question : are both (c, d) and (e) correct? And are both (f) and (g) correct?


Thank you always~.
 
  • owlman5

    Senior Member
    English-US
    (1) It is possible to use the structures in "C", "D", and "E". However, they all seem a little odd and wordy to me. "C" and "D" seem particularly unlikely in ordinary language. Tell me why he isn't coming. - This statement says the same thing in an ordinary way.

    (2) "F" and "G" are both possible, but there's really no need to add "for" at the end of the sentence in "G". I prefer "why" to "reason" in the statement: Tell me why he doesn't come here. = Tell me the reason he doesn't come here.
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    Hello jullianus

    It would be very unusual to replace "why" in 1a with "for which", and impossible, I'd say, to replace it with "which ... for".

    When you follow "the reason" with a clause, the clause usually begins with "why" or "that" and there is no "for".

    Informally "why"/ "that" is often omitted.

    So ...

    1a.Tell me the reason why he doesn't come here.:tick:
    b. Tell me the reason for which he doesn't come here.:(
    c. Tell me the reason which he doesn't come here for. :cross:
    d. Tell me the reason that he doesn't come here for. :cross:
    e. Tell me the reason that he doesn't come here.:tick:
    f. Tell me the reason he doesn't come here.:tick:
    g. Tell me the reason he doesn't come here for. :cross:

    'For' can never be at the end of a sentence.
    I don't agree with this as a general statement - but I agree that I would not use "for" in these particular sentences.
     
    Last edited:

    boozer

    Senior Member
    Bulgarian
    I agree with Loob. If compelled to use 'for', I would probably say something like 'Tell me the reason for his not coming here', but I could not swear this would have the same meaning as the original sentence :D
     

    Forero

    Senior Member
    1a.Tell me the reason why he doesn't come here.:( [I avoid this combination. "The place where" and "the time when" don't bother me, but "the reason why" is redundant in this context, though not as objectionable as "the way how".]
    b. Tell me the reason for which he doesn't come here.:( ["The reason for which" is standard formal language where I live, but it sounds odd to me in this particular sentence.]
    c. Tell me the reason which he doesn't come here for.:cross:
    d. Tell me the reason that he doesn't come here for.:cross:
    e. Tell me the reason that he doesn't come here.:tick: [OK, but awkward since that adds nothing to the meaning.]
    f. Tell me the reason he doesn't come here.:tick: [I prefer this version for everyday communication.]
    g. Tell me the reason he doesn't come here for.:cross:
     

    Loob

    Senior Member
    English UK
    Just to follow up on Forero's answer: I, too, avoid "the reason why" in formal contexts, since many people see the "why" as redundant. I ticked it because I do use it in informal contexts; but Forero and I are, essentially, singing from the same hymn-sheet in terms of what we see as acceptable:).
     

    Parla

    Member Emeritus
    English - US
    Originally Posted by Parla: "Sentences (e) and (f) are the only ones that seem right to me."
    Does this mean 'of all sentences' or of (c, d, e, f, g)?
    I meant of all the sentences you listed. "Reason why" (sentence a) is considered poor phrasing and sentence b just sounds odd.
     
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