There is no love lost between them

Discussion in 'English Only' started by Magmod, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. Magmod

    Magmod Senior Member

    England
    England English
    Hi
    Is there a great difference in meaning between these two sentences as understood in USA, UK etc:
    1. They don’t get on well with one another
    2. There is no love lost between them
    Regards :)
     
  2. french4beth

    french4beth Senior Member

    Connecticut
    US-English
    For no. 1, to me it means they don't get along. Found on thefreedictionary.com: they don't "have smooth relations"

    For no. 2, they may get along, but they don't like each other; in other words, they're barely civil to each other.
    From thefreedictionary: no feelings of respect, admiration, or affection

    They both mean pretty much the same thing.
     
  3. Magmod

    Magmod Senior Member

    England
    England English
    Thanks Beth for your excellent answer and reference to thefreedictionary which also excellent :)
     
  4. Love Conquers All

    Love Conquers All New Member

    English, Canada
    Hi. I have heard this before and I believe that "There is no love lost between them" means different. For instance: if your friend had to move away. He/she would be gone but you would still care about eachother and talk to eachother. meaning that none of the love you have for eachother is changed/gone. This is what I have always understood it to mean, but I'm only fourteen and a half years old eh? :thumbsup: :thumbsdown: ?
     
  5. timpeac

    timpeac Senior Member

    England
    English (England)
    Certainly not how I've always understood it - for me it is like Beth described.
     
  6. Magmod

    Magmod Senior Member

    England
    England English
    I like your "Love Conquers All" which is true and sweet and your answer proves it.
    To tell you the truth I thought exactly as you did.
    Unfortunately the saying does mean they dislike each other as Beth said :)
     
  7. heidita Banned

    Madrid, Spain
    Germany (German, English, Spanish)
    That's what I thought too, they don't like each other. In London quite a usual sentences.
     
  8. foxfirebrand

    foxfirebrand Senior Member

    The Northern Rockies
    Southern AE greatly modified by a 1st-generation Scottish-American mother, and growing up abroad.
    We're on the right track here, but the indirect (and negative) form of "no love lost" marks it as an example of Anglo-Saxon irony-- a style where strong statements are inverted, understated, where a whole shitload is called "a not inconsiderable amount."

    In other words, let's not mince it so fine, "there's no love lost between them" means they hate each other.
    .
     
  9. Magmod

    Magmod Senior Member

    England
    England English
    I tried to work out how the expression means they hate each other, but I couldn't.
    Can you please explain further what you mean by a not inconsiderable amount. :)
     
  10. heidita Banned

    Madrid, Spain
    Germany (German, English, Spanish)
    A considerable amount : a lot

    an inconsiderable amount : not a lot/very little

    not an inconsiderable amount: a lot (the result of two negatives)
     
  11. foxfirebrand

    foxfirebrand Senior Member

    The Northern Rockies
    Southern AE greatly modified by a 1st-generation Scottish-American mother, and growing up abroad.
    There is a style of understatement in English, where a North Sea gale is called a "bit of a blow" and a deep hatred is referred to as a situation where "no love is lost."

    If you called a giant a "not notably short person," you'd be using that kind of irony, and the same formula as "a not inconsiderable amount" (by which you mean an overloaded barge-load). The Yanks arrived in Engliand in 1942 "in by no means insignificant numbers."

    And of course we were fond of saying that when we left in 1945 the whole island rose out of the sea by a foot or two-- but that reflects a very different tradition, the American propensity for "tall tales," or exaggeration.
    .
     
  12. Magmod

    Magmod Senior Member

    England
    England English
    Thanks Fox for your explanation :thumbsup:

    It didn't occur to me that it was an exaggeration, and as you said let's not mince it so fine :D

    Regards :)
     
  13. Joobs Banned

    In a house
    Glasgow, Scotland - English
    Actually it is merely a corruption of an old and well known phrase. To understand the confusion one must understand where the phrase originates from and its original meaning. A good example is its original use in the ballad "Babes in the Wood".

    "No love between this two was lost,
    Each was to other kind,
    In love they lived, in love they died,
    And left two babes behind."

    As you can see the meaning in context originally was completely the opposite to that which the slightly changed modern version has. It really is just an example of how a phrase when taken out of context can be corrupted to mean the exact opposite.

    Now it means "dislike"
    Originally it meant "like"

    As to how it can now mean dislike that is easy.

    Think of it this way: That any love that they may have is not lost by being given to the other.
     
  14. Joobs Banned

    In a house
    Glasgow, Scotland - English
    Actually although your answer is correct the way you arrive at isn't sound.

    Not an inconsiderable amount means a lot simply because you are saying it is:

    "not an amount worth not considering"

    Meaning it is actually a large amount. Both the negatives in this rewording have proper meaning in their respective placing.

    Unlike in basic algebra where the two negatives would cancel each other out and become a positive in Language this is not a rule. Although the example above does work that way it shouldn't be seen or quoted as a rule.

    Consider this (a line from Chaucer's Canterbury tales)

    He never said nothing bad in all his life to nobody.

    or.

    I haven't got none

    If you use the algebraic rule here the sentences convey quite different meaning to what is actually intended. Double negatives may be frowned upon in general usage nowadays but there really is nothing wrong with using them - it's just not fashionable.
     
  15. heidita Banned

    Madrid, Spain
    Germany (German, English, Spanish)
    This is what I understood. Possibly not well phrased, jeje

    Welcome on board, Joobs.
     

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