this is what... is made of

liliange

Senior Member
France, French
This is what our student community life is made of: enjoyment and creativity.

Est-ce que cette phrase est correcte?

Merci :)
 
  • alexjtb

    New Member
    English - UK
    Salut liliange,

    Je pense que "This is what our student community life consists of" serait mieux.

    Mais personnellement, je réécrirais toute la phrase: "Our student community life consists of enjoyment and creativity."

    a
     

    liliange

    Senior Member
    France, French
    Ok, MERCI :)
    C'est juste que j'ai l'impression que ca fait moins entrainant. Tant pis, je vais corriger ca, merci beaucoup
     

    teslmaster

    New Member
    English-Canada
    You could also write: "Our student community life is made up of enjoyment and creativity."

    made up of = consists of
     

    lecanard

    Member
    English
    Salut liliange,

    Je pense que "This is what our student community life consists of" serait mieux.

    Mais personnellement, je réécrirais toute la phrase: "Our student community life consists of enjoyment and creativity."

    a
    I agree this is better, but the sentence is still a bit awkward. Perhaps "Our student community life places emphasis on enjoyment and creativity" ?
     

    rosalind

    Senior Member
    USA, American English
    I actually kind of like liliange's original version. It makes me think of the old nursery rhyme:

    What are little girls made of?
    What are little girls made of?
    Sugar and spice
    And everything nice,
    That's what little girls are made of.

    What are little boys made of?
    What are little boys made of?
    Snips and snails
    And puppy-dogs' tails,
    That's what little boys are made of.

    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Are_Little_Boys_Made_Of?

    (Or, of course, for a more modern version:
    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/mirandalambert/gunpowderlead.html )
     

    teslmaster

    New Member
    English-Canada
    The nursery rhyme notwithstanding, unfortunately liliange's original version is ungrammatical.

    I actually kind of like liliange's original version. It makes me think of the old nursery rhyme:

    What are little girls made of?
    What are little girls made of?
    Sugar and spice
    And everything nice,
    That's what little girls are made of.

    What are little boys made of?
    What are little boys made of?
    Snips and snails
    And puppy-dogs' tails,
    That's what little boys are made of.

    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Are_Little_Boys_Made_Of?

    (Or, of course, for a more modern version:
    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/mirandalambert/gunpowderlead.html )
     

    rosalind

    Senior Member
    USA, American English
    teslmaster, I agree it reads awkwardly (it was the liveliness that appealed to me, not the smoothness or clarity), but I think I'd have to stop short of calling it "ungrammatical." We may just have to disagree here.
     

    teslmaster

    New Member
    English-Canada
    I agree this is better, but the sentence is still a bit awkward. Perhaps "Our student community life places emphasis on enjoyment and creativity" ?
    That could also work, but in that case I would write it as "Our student community life emphasizes enjoyment and creativity." It is more active and flows better I think.
     

    teslmaster

    New Member
    English-Canada
    teslmaster, I agree it reads awkwardly (it was the liveliness that appealed to me, not the smoothness or clarity), but I think I'd have to stop short of calling it "ungrammatical." We may just have to disagree here.
    It "reads awkwardly" because it is ungrammatical. "Made of" would make more sense if we were describing the tangible or concrete materials used to make something (as in the case of the nursery rhyme which suggests that boys and girls are--metaphorically--made of those various things).

    However, liliange's request does not pertain to tangible materials but to intangibles (i.e., enjoyment and creativity). This is where "made up of" becomes the appropriate phrase to use.

    It is not a question of opinion, it is simply the way it is.
     

    rosalind

    Senior Member
    USA, American English
    "Made of" would make more sense if we were describing the tangible or concrete materials used to make something (as in the case of the nursery rhyme which suggests that boys and girls are--metaphorically--made of those various things).

    However, liliange's request does not pertain to tangible materials but to intangibles (i.e., enjoyment and creativity). This is where "made up of" becomes the appropriate phrase to use.

    It is not a question of opinion, it is simply the way it is.
    Heh! Not to get into an off-topic tangle or anything, but... since we are, after all, on a lively forum dedicated to that rich and complex thing that is language...

    I respectfully disagree. I certainly respect your feeling that "made up of" is better in this context, based on the reasons you gave, but I don't happen to share it. (And it is a feeling, not a hard-and-fast rule.)

    i would also respectfully say that we are, in fact, talking about opinion here, and not at all about "just the way it is." If anything, the fact that my intuition is different from yours -- what with me also being a native speaker, also educated, and, for that matter, also a "TESL master" -- shows clearly that these are subjective, not objective, matters.

    Now back to our subjective discussion of what sounds best in liliange's context!
     

    lecanard

    Member
    English
    Rosalind, being also a native speaker, I have to say that I agree with teslmaster - although liliange's attempt can be understood, the sentence is not quite correct, for reasons that teslmaster has outlined.
     

    teslmaster

    New Member
    English-Canada
    Heh! Not to get into an off-topic tangle or anything, but... since we are, after all, on a lively forum dedicated to that rich and complex thing that is language...

    I respectfully disagree. I certainly respect your feeling that "made up of" is better in this context, based on the reasons you gave, but I don't happen to share it. (And it is a feeling, not a hard-and-fast rule.)

    i would also respectfully say that we are, in fact, talking about opinion here, and not at all about "just the way it is." If anything, the fact that my intuition is different from yours -- what with me also being a native speaker, also educated, and, for that matter, also a "TESL master" -- shows clearly that these are subjective, not objective, matters.

    Now back to our subjective discussion of what sounds best in liliange's context!
    Prescriptive grammar is based on objectivity and not on intuition. In this instance, your subjective intuition is incorrect. I suggest you refamiliarize yourself with Standard English (as opposed to your regional dialect which presumably allows you to generate such an odd entry) before you attempt to assist others further.
     

    rosalind

    Senior Member
    USA, American English
    Prescriptive grammar is based on objectivity and not on intuition. In this instance, your subjective intuition is incorrect. I suggest you refamiliarize yourself with Standard English (as opposed to your regional dialect which presumably allows you to generate such an odd entry) before you attempt to assist others further.
    <eyeroll> Seriously? Come on.

    (We're not _really_ going to get into a fight about who has a posher education, more impeccable credentials, or a "better" grounding in descriptive, as opposed to prescriptive, foundations of sociolinguistics. But... come on. Don't go around telling other native speakers(!) to "refamiliarize [themselves] with Standard English," since your position as a teslmaster allows you to assert that their intuition is incorrect(!!!) )
     

    teslmaster

    New Member
    English-Canada
    If you wish to believe that anything goes, then of course you are free to do so. I recognize that there are many varieties of English (I deplore the use of the term "dialect" but a suitable replacement that is understandable to most seems not to have come about as of yet); however, when assisting a non-native speaker, I think it is our responsibility to provide them with an answer that is rooted in Standard English. I hate to have to tell you this but one's intuitions can be incorrect...even yours and despite the fact that you are a native speaker. Hey, I have been known to be wrong on occasion as well. This just isn't one of those occasions.
     

    liliange

    Senior Member
    France, French
    Well I like that version:
    Our student community life emphasizes enjoyment and creativity!

    Thanks to all of you, I did not know that my sentence would bring such a debate... hahaha
     
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