this is what, this is why, this is who/whom

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Nino83

Senior Member
Italian
Hi to all.
I'm studying spanish relative pronouns and I've got some problem.
Can you tell me if my translations are right or wrong?

This is what (subject) happened --> Esto es lo que sucedió
This is what (object) I told him --> Esto es lo que le dije
Remember what I spoke you of (genitive) --> Recorda éso del que/éso de quien te hablé
This is why I didn't go (prepositional) --> Esto es por que/por quien/éso por que/éso por quien no fui

She is the person who sings in the band (subject) --> Ella es la que canta en la banda
He is the person (whom) I knew last month (object) --> Ello es el que conocí el último mes
He is the person whom I told you of (genitive) --> Ello es del que/de quien/ése del que/ése de quien te hablé
She is the person whom I wrote to (prepositional) --> Ella es a la que/a quien/ésa a la que/ésa a quien escribí

Thank you.
 
  • UniversityPhysics

    Member
    English - US
    I believe you're mostly right, but bear in mind 'eso' doesn't carry an accent, and 'recordar' is an o-ue stem-changing verb, so the imperative would be recuerda, NOT *recorda.
     

    jmx

    Senior Member
    Spain / Spanish
    Can you tell me if my translations are right or wrong?

    This is what (subject) happened --> Esto es lo que sucedió. :tick:
    This is what (object) I told him --> Esto es lo que le dije. :tick:
    Remember what I spoke you of (genitive) --> Recorda éso del que/éso de quien te hablé :confused: "I spoke you" ????
    This is why I didn't go (prepositional) --> Esto es por lo que no fui.

    She is the person who sings in the band (subject) --> Ella es la (persona) que canta en la banda.
    He is the person (whom) I knew last month (object) --> Él es la persona que / el que conocí el mes pasado.
    He is the person whom I told you of (genitive) --> Él es la persona de la que/de quien te hablé
    She is the person whom I wrote to (prepositional) --> Ella es la persona a la que/a quien escribí

    Thank you.
     

    Nino83

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Yes, I'd had to write "spoke to you of" (or told you of) :D

    En lugar de eso del que/eso de quien podría decir de lo que/de quien (es. Recuerda de lo que/ de quien te hablé)? Are they interchangeable?
    Y en lugar de por lo que podría escribir aquello por lo que (es. Esto es aquello por lo que no fui)?

    If I want to say the one who(m) instead of the person who(m) (as the Italian "colui/colei che" or French "celui/celle qui") how can I translate it?

    The one whom I told you of is a dear friend of mine --> Del que/aquelle del que/aquelle de quem (?) te hablé es mi amigo
    The one whom I wrote to is married to my cousin --> A la que/aquelle a la que/aquelle a quem (?) escribí está casada con mi primo

    Muchas gracias
     
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    echinocereus

    Senior Member
    English United States
    Hi, Nino83, Relative pronouns can be thorny problems, can they not? Especially when they are mixed with prepositions – in English and in Spanish. Probably in other languages too. I have a few suggestions about the Spanish and also about the English, if you wouldn’t mind.

    Remember what I spoke to you (or - talked to you) about. Recuerda de lo que te hablé. (This seems like a simpler solution to me than the “long way around” with “eso de que te hablé.” I would like to hear from Jmx, our native contributor, about his view of the simple “de lo que.” Also, Nino83, remember that “quien” only refers to people.)

    This is why I didn’t go. Esto es por qué no fui. (Again, Jmx, is the simple “por qué” all right here in addition to the longer “por lo que”?)

    She is the one who sings in the band. Ella es la que canta en la banda. (Your sentence, Nino83, would be translated as “the one who” in English.)

    He is the person (whom) I met last month. Él es la persona que conocí el mes pasado. (You would not use “la que” or “quien” in a “restrictive” clause, one not set off by commas.)

    He is the one (whom) I met last month. (Él) es el que conocí el mes pasado.

    He is the person (whom) I told you about. Él es la persona de quien (de la que, de la cual) te hablé el mes pasado.

    She is the person (whom) I wrote to (or - to whom I wrote). Ella es la persona a quien (a la que, a la cual) le escribí.

    In general, Nino83, I would suggest that if you wish to include the word “person” in your Spanish sentence you must say “la persona” and if you use “el que” or “la que” to refer to a person the English translation will be he who, she who or the one who.

    If I made any errors in my Spanish sentences, I would appreciate corrections.

    Un saludo. :)
     

    jmx

    Senior Member
    Spain / Spanish
    Nino, your insistence in adding 'eso' or 'aquello' to the relative constuctions must be some literal translation from Italian; the sentences with these demonstratives needn't be incorrect, but demonstratives are not necessary in any way to make Spanish relative clauses.

    'quien' and 'quienes' can be used as relative pronouns instead of 'el que'/'la que' and 'los que'/'las que', but only when speaking of people. Never instead of 'lo que', which does not refer to people.

    The one whom I told you of is a dear friend of mine. --> La persona/Ese/Aquel del que te hablé es mi amigo.
    The one whom I wrote to is married to my cousin. --> La mujer/Esa/Aquella a la que escribí está casada con mi primo.

    Remember what I spoke to you about. --> Recuerda de lo que te hablé. (more common: "recuerda lo que te dije".)

    Esto es por qué no fui. :cross:
    Esto es por lo que no fui.
    Esta es la razón/causa por la que no fui.

    The rest of examples by Echinocereus are Ok.
     

    Nino83

    Senior Member
    Italian
    but demonstratives are not necessary in any way to make Spanish relative clauses.
    Thank you jmx. I insisted on demonstratives because in other romance languages what and the one who are preceded by such pronouns (what = "ciò che" "ce qui" "aquilo que", the one who = "colui/colei che" "celui/celle que" "aquele/aquela que"). So Spanish language needn't them.

    So quien is the equivalent of the Portuguese quem (prepositional, for person).

    Thank you echinocereus. So the one who can be translated with el(los)/la(s) que.

    Finally to whom will be translated al que/a quien?

    Es. The one to whom I said it will keep it in secret --> (la persona) al que/a quien lo dije mantendrá eso en segreto. (Can I omit "la persona"?)
    I saw this sentence: "él a quien(a el que) yo había escrito" --> "the one (whom) I wrote to" so instead of la persona I can use él/ella/ellos/ellas + preposition + quien. Am I right?
     
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    TalkingHead

    Member
    Spanish- American & British English
    Hola Nino83
    las anotaciones de jmx me parecen muy acertadas y claras.
    Remember what I spoke to you of (genitive) --> Recorda éso que/éso de quien te hablé :confused: "I spoke you" ???
    Recuerda aquello de lo que te hablé. No olvides lo que te dije.


     

    jmx

    Senior Member
    Spain / Spanish
    Finally to whom will be translated al que/a quien?
    As a general rule, yes. There might be exceptions.

    The one to whom I said it will keep it in secret --> (la persona) al que/a quien lo dije mantendrá eso en segreto. (Can I omit "la persona"?)
    "La persona a la que ...". In this case it is better to include some previous referent "La persona/Aquel/...", otherwise you have a rather clumsy sentence, because the same referent is OI in one clause and subject in the other one.

    I saw this sentence: "él a quien(a el que) yo había escrito" --> "the one (whom) I wrote to" so instead of la persona I can use él/ella/ellos/ellas + preposition + quien. Am I right?
    No, that's wrong, I can't think of one single example where that structure makes sense.
     

    TalkingHead

    Member
    Spanish- American & British English
    Nino83 mi consejo es seguir una sencilla regla: "menos es más" creo que algún literato ruso dijo esto.

    "He to whom I had written " y olvidate de tantos "that" "to" "to whom" y ten en cuenta si ese "he" es sujeto u objeto del siguiente verbo en la oración para que si sujeto sea "he" si objeto sea "him" o exija un verbo en pasiva. "The one I wrote to" está bien pero no suena muy inglés.

    Y luego hay una cosa que se llama "Heavy NP-Shift" que algo tiene que decir en el orden de las partes de la oración. Los pronombres nos ayudan a no repetir sintagmas completos con sus determinantes y sus nucleos pero hay que ser muy cuidadosos con el lugar en que los colocamos, los pronombres.

    No recuerdo cuál era el original si en español o en inglés. Personalmente cuando la cosa se complica prefiero coger la frase inicial en el idioma que sea y tratar de decirlo más facilito.
     

    Nino83

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Thank you jmx.
    I've read the latter sentence (él a quien yo había escrito) on this page: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oración_de_relativo. So it's wrong.

    En fin, si el sustantivo es inanimado se utiliza lo que (nominativo, acusativo), de lo que (genitivo) y preposición + lo que (prepositivo) mientras si el sustantivo es una persona se utiliza la persona/el sujeto(chico, chica, amigo ecc..)/aquél + que o (+ preposición) + el/la que/quien/quienes.

    TalkingHead, it's all clear. I shouldn't utilize "the one who(m)" when I write in English. I had to write these sentences because the question was: "how to traduce "ciò che/colui che" (Italian) "ce qui/celui qui" (French) "o/aquilo/aquele que" (Portuguese) in Spanish?" :D

    Muchas gracias por las respuestas clarísimas.
     
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