Thus, it is not... / sentences, thus enabling readers [comma]

Spearton

Banned
Spanish
"A value-added tax is not imposed on foreign source income. Thus, it is not considered an income tax in the U.S. sense, and it does not qualify for the foreign tax credit."

In this sentence, we didn't use comma before thus. I wonder why is that, in addition when do we use comma before words like thus, in fact, of course, therefore. I'm looking forward to your answers (Is there any error in this post?)
 
  • GreenWhiteBlue

    Senior Member
    USA - English
    "A value-added tax is not imposed on foreign source income. Thus, it is not considered an income tax in the U.S. sense, and it does not qualify for the foreign tax credit."

    In this sentence, we didn't use comma before thus. I wonder why is that, that is
    ?????

    There is no comma before "thus" because "Thus" is the first word in that sentence. Other than quotation marks, you cannot put punctuation marks before the first word of a sentence in English.
     

    dojibear

    Senior Member
    English - Northeast US
    when do we use comma before words like thus, in fact, of course, therefore.
    These words start sentences (or independent clauses). It is almost never correct English to combine sentences (or independent clauses) with a comma. This is a common mistake made by students of English. So I assume it is correct, in some other languages.
     

    Linkway

    Senior Member
    British English
    Hi Spearton

    Welcome to the forum!

    "Thus" has several different uses and meanings. Thus, it is difficult for us to give answers that are most relevant to your particular concerns or uncertainties.

    It would be really helpful if you could give one or more example sentences that you need help with.

    Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences, thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads.

    Following this policy thus helps WR to get very high index search results for the specific issue.

    Thus, my advice would be to try to ask your question in the way that Word Reference requires - it's great advantages might not be very obvious at first, but I think you will appreciate them more, later.

    I'm giving this advice to be helpful, thus I hope you will welcome it.

    How helpful is my answer thus far?
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    Why is there a comma before thus in this sentence?

    "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences, thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads."

    "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences." This is a complete sentence, isn't it? Then why did you use comma before thus here?
     

    PaulQ

    Banned
    UK
    English - England
    Okay, could you please give me some examples about thus not being the first word in a sentence.
    "Do not do it like that! Do it thus."
    "It is an isosceles triangle; the two sides of the triangle are thus equal."
    "He could not have crossed the river, as the bridge had collapsed, thus his story must be a lie."
    "He could not have crossed the river, as the bridge had collapsed; he must thus have walked along the bank."
     

    dojibear

    Senior Member
    English - Northeast US
    Why is there a comma before thus in this sentence?

    "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences, thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads."

    "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences." This is a complete sentence, isn't it? Then why did you use comma before thus here?
    "Just" is not in that complete sentence. "Just" is in the dependent clause after it, which is not a complete sentence: "thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers". A comma is acceptable (sometimes) to combine a sentence with a dependent clause.
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    "Just" is not in that complete sentence. "Just" is in the dependent clause after it, which is not a complete sentence: "thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers". A comma is acceptable (sometimes) to combine a sentence with a dependent clause.
    Please be more clear. Firstly, Why are you mentioning the word "Just" here? Secondly, when is it acceptable to use combine a sentence with dependent clause using a comma. Could you give me some examples?
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    "He could not have crossed the river, as the bridge had collapsed, thus his story must be a lie."
    You used comma before thus in this sentence because "as the bridge had collapsed" is dependent, and "thus his story must be a lie" is independent. And when a dependent clause follows an independent, a comma is needed. Am I right?
     

    dojibear

    Senior Member
    English - Northeast US
    Secondly, when is it acceptable to use combine a sentence with dependent clause using a comma. Could you give me some examples?
    That's not a question. That's a request for a long essay. You should search with google: I am sure there are web pages that explain all the rules for this, and give examples for each type of use.
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences, thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads."
    Okay, so this is a independent clause followed by a dependent clause, which means that you don't need a comma, but it's not wrong to use a comma. Am I right?

    Would this one be considered wrong?
    "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences. Thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads."
     

    dojibear

    Senior Member
    English - Northeast US
    Using a period here is wrong. And I think the comma is needed (putting no punctuation there is wrong).

    Edit:

    You could put a period there, and also change "Thus enabling" to "This enables". That gives the "readers" clause a main verb ("enables") and a verb subject ("This"), turning the dependent clause into an independent clause (a sentence).
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    Using a period here is wrong. And I think the comma is needed (putting no punctuation there is wrong).

    Edit:

    You could put a period there, and also change "Thus enabling" to "This enables". That gives the "readers" clause a main verb ("enables") and a verb subject ("This"), turning the dependent clause into an independent clause (a sentence).
    Still don't get it why did we use comma before thus here. Some examples with demonstration would help.
     

    SevenDays

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Why is there a comma before thus in this sentence?

    "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences, thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads."

    "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences." This is a complete sentence, isn't it? Then why did you use comma before thus here?
    Yes, that part is a complete sentence, but there's no comma because the writer wanted to sentence to go on, to continue, and not to finish right after "specific sentences." That's why there's a comma. And there's a comma for another reason, just as important, or perhaps more important. Read the entire sentence aloud, and you'll notice that something happens when you go from "specific sentences" to "thus enabling;" there is a change in intonation, so that the two parts of the sentences do not get the same pitch (the second part gets a slightly higher pitch, which may be focused on a particular word, such as "enabling" or "readers"). From this we get the idea that there's a slight pause between "specific sentences" and "thus enabling readers." It's a change in intonation rather than a pause, but that doesn't matter; what matters is that a comma reflects this speech feature in writing.

    Can you use a period instead of a comma? Sure, but you change the structure of the sentence.

    Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences.

    You can put a period after "specific sentences" because that is the end of a complete sentence, and it is a complete sentence because it has a conjugated verb ("requires") that functions as main verb. However, you can not then start "thus" with a capital letter ("Thus"), because what follows is not a sentence. And what follows is not a sentence, because in:

    thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers -- not just for the person who asked the question, but for the thousands of other people who read the threads

    There is no conjugated verb that can function as a main verb. There are two conjugated verbs ("asked" and "read"), but these are inside relative clauses, and therefore are not "main verbs."

    So, use a period if you wish, but make sure you have a conjugated main verb in the second sentence. For example, something like:

    Word References requires us to concentrate on specific sentences. Thus, asking high focused questions is valuable -- not just for the person who asked the question, but for the thousands of other people who read the threads.

    The comma after a "Thus" that starts a sentence is not automatic (it's not a syntactic requirement). In practice, we usually put a comma when what follows is long string of words. If what follows is short, you can have "Thus" without a comma.
     
    Last edited:

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    Yes, that part is a complete sentence, but there's no comma because the writer wanted to sentence to go on, to continue, and not to finish right after "specific sentences." That's why there's a comma. And there's a comma for another reason, just as important, or perhaps more important. Read the entire sentence aloud, and you'll notice that something happens when you go from "specific sentences" to "thus enabling;" there is a change in intonation, so that the two parts of the sentences do not get the same pitch (the second part gets a slightly higher pitch, which may be focused on a particular word, such as "enabling" or "readers"). From this we get the idea that there's a slight pause between "specific sentences" and "thus enabling readers." It's a change in intonation rather than a pause, but that doesn't matter; what matters is that a comma reflects this speech feature in writing.

    Can you use a period instead of a comma? Sure, but you change the structure of the sentence.

    Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences.

    You can put a period after "specific sentences" because that is the end of a complete sentence, and it is a complete sentence because it has a conjugated verb ("requires") that functions as main verb. However, you can not then start "thus" with a capital letter ("Thus"), because what follows is not a sentence. And what follows is not a sentence, because in:

    thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers -- not just for the person who asked the question, but for the thousands of other people who read the threads

    There is no conjugated verb that can function as a main verb. There are two conjugated verbs ("asked" and "read"), but these are inside relative clauses, and therefore are not "main verbs."

    So, use a period if you wish, but make sure you have a conjugated main verb in the second sentence. For example, something like:

    Word References requires us to concentrate on specific sentences. Thus, asking high focused questions is valuable -- not just for the person who asked the question, but for the thousands of other people who read the threads.

    The comma after a "Thus" that starts a sentence is not automatic (it's not a syntactic requirement). In practice, we usually put a comma when what follows is long strong of words. If what follows is short, you can have "Thus" without a comma.
    Is there a rule about comma in what you have mentioned? And some examples would help. Excuse my ignorance, but I would like to use a proper grammar without any mistakes, so please try to make it clear as much as you can.
     

    SevenDays

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Is there a rule about comma in what you have mentioned? And some examples would help. Excuse my ignorance, but I would like to use a proper grammar without any mistakes, so please try to make it clear as much as you can.
    Unfortunately, there are no rules. Punctuation is not about syntax/grammar; it's about style and meaning. What if a friend of yours asked you, why did you use a comma and not a period before "but" and "so" in what you wrote above (Excuse my ignorance, but I would like to use proper grammar without any mistakes, so please try to make it clear as much as you can), what would you say? My guess is that you didn't follow any "rules;" you simply wrote what you had in mind (and it was very well done; you know more about punctuation that you may realize).

    All I can say is, read as much as you can (books, magazines, newspapers) to get a sense of how punctuation works. And keep in mind what I said, a proper, well-constructed sentence (which starts with a capital letter and ends with a period) needs to have a conjugated main verb.

    For now, check out this site; it's got lots of examples on the uses of "thus."
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    Unfortunately, there are no rules. Punctuation is not about syntax/grammar; it's about style and meaning. What if a friend of yours asked you, why did you use a comma and not a period before "but" and "so" in what you wrote above (Excuse my ignorance, but I would like to use proper grammar without any mistakes, so please try to make it clear as much as you can), what would you say? My guess is that you didn't follow any "rules;" you simply wrote what you had in mind (and it was very well done; you know more about punctuation that you may realize).

    All I can say is, read as much as you can (books, magazines, newspapers) to get a sense of how punctuation works. And keep in mind what I said, a proper, well-constructed sentence (which starts with a capital letter and ends with a period) needs to have a conjugated main verb.

    For now, check out this site; it's got lots of examples on the uses of "thus."
    Basically, there're some rules for comma. I used comma before but because when we want to join 2 independent clauses, we join them by a comma and a coordinating conjunction (and, but, or, for, nor, so). Check this site below
    Purdue OWL: Punctuation

    There might be a rule about the comma in that sentence: "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences, thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads." , so please read it carefully.
     

    SevenDays

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Basically, there're some rules for comma. I used comma before but because when we want to join 2 independent clauses, we join them by a comma and a coordinating conjunction (and, but, or, for, nor, so). Check this site below
    Purdue OWL: Punctuation

    There might be a rule about the comma in that sentence: "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences, thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads." , so please read it carefully.
    Don't confuse "guidelines" with "rules." You can certainly use Purdue OWL as a guide, or any other site that talks about punctuation. If Purdue OWL answers all your doubts, then that's all that really matters. After all, what you want is something that helps you in your writing.

    But if you are really interested in punctuation, on how it is used and its effect in writing, then I recommend that you read any book by Cormac McCarthy, William Faulkner, James Joyce, Marcel Proust etc., and see what they do with punctuation. Well, maybe you shouldn't' read James Joyce's Ulysses; you might end up with a headache.
     

    SevenDays

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    The police didn't lock the doors, thus enabling the criminals to escape. Did I use comma here right?
    Yes.
    A sentence can always be part of a larger context. Suppose you wrote a story about some criminals who escaped police custody, and you explain what happened and how it happened. At the end of the story, it's perfectly ok to write, as summary:
    The police didn't lock the door, thus enabling the criminals to escape.
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    Okay, I think I'm kinda getting it. See the examples below
    1.I studied hard. Thus, I'll get high marks.
    2.I played video games, thus wasting my time.
    3.I didn't eat. Thus, I'm hungry
    4.I mediated a lot, thus getting relaxed.

    Are all these examples right? If yes, then why? If no, then also why?
     

    SevenDays

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Okay, I think I'm kinda getting it. See the examples below
    1.I studied hard. Thus, I'll get high marks.
    2.I played video games, thus wasting my time.
    3.I didn't eat. Thus, I'm hungry
    4.I mediated a lot, thus getting relaxed.

    Are all these examples right? If yes, then why? If no, then also why?
    1. and 3. are ok.
    Be careful with -ing words. Usually, they go with another verb; if not, they are hard to "process." So, the issue with 2. and 4. is not punctuation, but the way you are using the -ing in the second part of the sentence. Compare:
    I played video games, and I was thus wasting my time.
    I meditated a lot, thus getting relaxed was not a problem.
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    Still not clear. I need a rule about a comma in the that sentence "Word Reference requires us to concentrate on specific sentences, thus enabling readers to get highly focused answers- not just for the person who asked the question, but for thousands of other people who read the threads.". I think contacting a moderator would be great, but I wish they would explain it very clear.
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    The police didn't lock the door, thus allowing prisoners to escape.

    "The police didn't lock the door" is a complete sentence, which means, that we should have put full stop instead of a comma. Isn't that right?
     

    Florentia52

    Modwoman in the attic
    English - United States
    We can't join two complete sentences with a comma.

    The police didn't lock the door, this allowed the prisoners to escape. :cross:
    The police didn't lock the door. This allowed the prisoners to escape. :tick:

    But it is very often possible to use a comma to add a clause to what would be, by itself, a complete sentence.

    I left, shutting the door behind me.
    He looked at me strangely, and I wondered if he was entirely sane.
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    Please answer my question. Why did we put comma before thus here?

    "The police didn't lock the door, thus allowing prisoners to escape."
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    I think these participial clauses you have been asking about are usually separated from the main clause by a comma - they show a "result". "Thus" seems to be optional in this type of present participial clause, or rather sometimes it improves the sense and sometimes it doesn't (in my opinion).


    The police didn't lock the door, (thus) allowing prisoners to escape.

    Compare with this:

    an action that is the result of another action:

    Moments later a bomb exploded, leaving three people dead and twelve others injured.
    When I entered they all looked at me, making me feel uncomfortable.
    Participle clauses | Grammaring - A guide to English grammar
    When I entered they all looked at me, (thus) making me feel uncomfortable.
    "Thus" could be added here with no difference of meaning or grammar, I think.
     

    Serious dude

    Member
    Arabic
    I think these participial clauses you have been asking about are usually separated from the main clause by a comma - they show a "result". "Thus" seems to be optional in this type of present participial clause, or rather sometimes it improves the sense and sometimes it doesn't (in my opinion).


    The police didn't lock the door, (thus) allowing prisoners to escape.

    Compare with this:



    When I entered they all looked at me, (thus) making me feel uncomfortable.
    "Thus"
    could be added here with no difference of meaning or grammar, I think.
    Finally, a great answer. Thanks for your efforts. If I had any trouble again with understanding that sentence, I will let you.
     
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