tilde en nombres en inglés - León / Leon

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by Idvaad, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. Idvaad New Member

    Español - México.

    Tengo esta duda... Según tengo entendido las palabras que no se traducen deben conservar las características de escritura de su idioma ¿estoy mal en eso?... según lo que digo debe acentuarse una palabra en español que fue escrita entre palabras en inglés... pero casi nunca lo he visto así en las páginas en inglés.

    Por ejemplo:

    Con tildes:

    *The best food in León, Guanajuato.
    *José is a hard worker.

    Sin tildes:

    *The best food in Leon, Guanajuato.
    *Jose is a hard worker.

    ¿Cuál es la forma correcta?

    PD: Si mi pregunta está mal ubicada y debe estar dentro del área de gramática o en alguna otra, por favor háganmelo notar.

  2. sandpiperlily

    sandpiperlily Senior Member

    I prefer to keep all diacritical marks from original languages, but I don't know if there's a set rule on this. Since most English speakers who don't regularly type in other languages don't even necessarily know how to produce accents, tildes etc on their keyboards, a lot of people ignore these marks.
  3. Oldy Nuts

    Oldy Nuts Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Spanish - Chile
    Sería lo justo, pero en los periódicos de los EEUU sólo usan las letras del alfabeto inglés. Por tanto, ninguna vocal acentuada...
  4. aztlaniano

    aztlaniano Senior Member

    Lavapiestán, Madrid
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    Welcome, Idvaad!:)
    Yo escribiría los nombres con sus tildes, en caso de llevarlas.
    Todo depende de la editorial, pero son muchas las palabras del francés que conservan sus tildes en inglés: café, pâté, crêpe, née, divorcée, etc., sin mencionar la cedilla en façade.
  5. Agró

    Agró Senior Member

    Alta Navarra
    Lo cual demuestra una distinta actitud hacia uno y otro idioma por parte de los periódicos, como si uno tuviera un prestigio distinto al del otro. No hay dificultades técnicas para poner tildes, acentos o cedillas, pero se hace con palabras francesas y no con palabras españolas.
  6. swift

    swift Senior Member

    Spanish – Costa Rica (Valle Central)
    ¿Y no podría tratarse también de un tratamiento distinto en las dos variedades de inglés, a saber, estadounidense y británico?
  7. pops91710

    pops91710 Senior Member

    Well, then let's make it a rule because I could not agree with you more. I see some signs on our California freeways both ways. I prefer to keep it real!
  8. swift

    swift Senior Member

    Spanish – Costa Rica (Valle Central)
    Acabo de encontrarme esto en la Merriam-Webster's Guide to Ponctuation and Style (Second Edition):
    Y enlista los diacríticos más usuales:
    En definitiva, los signos diacríticos de las lenguas extranjeras deben ser conservados. :)
  9. sdgraham

    sdgraham Senior Member

    Oregon, USA
    USA English
    Once upon a time, we in the U.S. had no option because typewriters did not have those characters so the matter was moot. Now, however, our computers can generate just about any character we desire, even if we don't have the appropriate keyboard.

    News agencies traditionally transmitted stories in Baudot code, which precluded the use of accents and transmission could only be in characters without diacritical marks. Thus, newspapers at the receiving end would have to edit the copy before setting it into type.

    Even today, in the United States, news agency copy is transmitted without attempting to use diacritical marks. For starters, many newspaper composition systems cannot deal with the characters. Add to that the situation that the majority of writers are Anglophones who have no idea where the marks go and you have the potential for disaster.

    Down the road from me was a pseudo-Mexican restaurant calling itself Casa Réal. A local dentist advertised se habla espãnol. (por problemente, ¡no!) Arghhhhh! Anglophones often randomly fling the diacritical marks about in hopes that they will stick somewhere appropriate.

    Now add to this the situation of "how does one decide which language to support?" Sure, Spanish is relatively easy (I stress "relatively") because of its prevalence in the U.S., but how about Czech with its 21 variations of accented characters. Are we going to worry about háčeks as well as acute and grave accents? How many people are going to write "Český fousek?" (That's a breed of dog, but it's the only example I can think of at the moment)

    But wait a minute. If we're going to be consistent, should we not use Chinese characters to refer to Hu Jintao (锦涛) (I hope that's right), the president of the Peoples Republic of China? Obviously then we should also recognize Влади́мир Влади́мирович Пу́тин, the prime minister of Russia, right?

    Having said all of this, I do use diacritical marks where I feel it's appropriate, but let's understand the potential problems before making blanket statements.
  10. Oldy Nuts

    Oldy Nuts Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Spanish - Chile
    sdgraham, I couldn't have put it better even if I had tried for days. However, although I agree with you and others on the desirability of conserving the proper spelling of foreign words, one has to put the limit somewhere. Obviously, using Chinese or Russian characters would be absolutely wasted on (and also completely meaningless for) at least 99.99% of the general public in countries with languages using European characters.

    I would expect the line to be drawn using some common sense..., althought this may be expecting too much of the people writing for the mass media.
  11. swift

    swift Senior Member

    Spanish – Costa Rica (Valle Central)
    You certainly have a point, Graham. Dvořák is another common name most people don't care to spell in Czech. :) Though I can see what you mean about Chinese and Russian names, we should bear in mind the difference between transliteration and Romanization, don't you think?
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  12. sdgraham

    sdgraham Senior Member

    Oregon, USA
    USA English
    For what it's worth, I don't know of any major player that recognizes M-W (except itself, of course)

    Academic papers use the style guide of the American Psychological Association
    Many book publishers use the Chicago Manual of Style.
    The U.S. Government Printing Office has its own style guide as does the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
    U.S. newspapers generally abide by the Associated Press Stylebook and where that work is silent, rely on Webster's New World Dictionary -College Edition.
  13. aurilla Senior Member

    Puerto Rico
    Am Eng/PR Spanish
    He visto que en inglés sólo mantienen los acentos en ciertos nombres derivados del francés que diferencian la versión femenina del masculino. Ej. Rene (sin acento) y cuando es femenino es Renée. La idea es que la versión femenino se siga pronunciando René en lugar de Renee (Rení).
  14. swift

    swift Senior Member

    Spanish – Costa Rica (Valle Central)
    Ha-ha. I'm sure there are more reliable and reputable style guides, Graham. :) I should have checked the APA Style before posting. :eek: Anyway, when it comes to daily use, putting the diacritical marks of the original language where possible won't hurt.
  15. Juan Jacob Vilalta

    Juan Jacob Vilalta Banned

    Right, I just don't know how to write the ř. :) (Besides, pronounced Vordjak, more or less).

    I really don't like Jose English subtitles instead of José.
  16. Oldy Nuts

    Oldy Nuts Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Spanish - Chile
    No, it wouldn't hurt to use non English (or non Spanish etc) characters whenever possible, within the limitations I have already mentioned. On the other hand, has any of you heard how the name "Carolina Herrera" is pronounced in American ads about her perfums? At least around here we make some efforts to pronounce foreing words, specially names, more or less properly.
  17. swift

    swift Senior Member

    Spanish – Costa Rica (Valle Central)
    I just purchased a suscription, for the benefit of all the readers of this thread.

    No, I didn't. I registered for a thirty-day free trial. :p
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  18. sandpiperlily

    sandpiperlily Senior Member

    Hahaha! My favorite example of this is the supposed "habañero" pepper.
  19. Istriano

    Istriano Senior Member

    Even in officially English words (loanwords from French) accents are rare:
    it used to be naïve 10 years ago, but now it's naive.
  20. Idvaad New Member

    Español - México.
    Wow! No pensé que se desataría tanta polémica... Hay mucha información interesante, MUCHAS GRACIAS!

    Entonces, lo legal, en inglés, es usar los signos y acentos de las palabras extranjeras tal cual su origen. Tomando en cuenta que los caractéres sean europeos...

  21. duvija

    duvija Senior Member

    Spanish - Uruguay

    No, no es lo 'legal'. Acá todo el mundo parece haber dado 'su opinión personal' de lo que a c/uno le gustaría hacer, y todos coinciden en que se deberían conservar las tildes. Bueno, creo que a poca gente le importa nuestra opinión. En inglés no hay tildes, y la mayoría de las veces donde en castellano son necesarias, en inglés no lo son. O sea, no se pone.

    Y no protesten, que hasta al castellano se le pasó el ataque de traducir nombres de países! - Inglaterra? Alemania? ... No solamente se cag...ufa... aban en los tildes sino en el nombre completo, sin siquiera intenciones de pronunciación. Así que un tilde más o menos, qué se va a hacer.
    Claro, en el programa de televisión 'Los anos perdidos', se sentía un tantito la falta de la ñ.:p
  22. Idvaad New Member

    Español - México.
    La mayoría ha dado opiniones pero me parece que hay algunos comentarios, en inglés, que indican que deben conservarse los acentos, a pesar de que los mismos autores no las incluyan... con reglas definidas, en palabras no traducidas:

    Por eso concluyo que es lo legal... según las fuentes y lo expuesto por SWIFT...

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