till use

  • panjandrum

    Lapsed Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    No, till is time-related.
    You walked "to the bus stop".

    On the other hand, if you happen to be in my part of the world, Scotland, or Northern England, your dialect would be understood :)
    (I'm not certain about the rest, but it's used here.)
     
    Last edited:

    Maanu

    Senior Member
    India - Malayalam
    No, till is time-related.
    You walked "to the bus stop".

    On the other hand, if you happen to be in my part of the world, Scotland, or Northern England, your dialect would be understood :)
    (I'm not certain about the rest, but it's used here.)
    Is there any equivalent to till for describing distance related items?
     

    brian

    Senior Member
    AmE (New Orleans)
    Is there any equivalent to till for describing distance related items?
    Till / Until is temporal; the spatial equivalent is up to.

    (1) Temporal
    a. I'll be here till/until 5pm.
    b. I walked till/until dusk.
    c. You can borrow the book until Tuesday.

    (2) Spatial
    a. I walked up to the edge.
    b. Paint the wall up to here, please.
    c. I climbed up to the top.

    Up to, but not until/till, can also be used with numerals:

    (3) Numeral
    a. You can buy up to 5 apples at a time.
    b. He faces up to 10 years in prison.
    c. Contestants can win up to 3 prizes.

    The thing, however, is that until/till and up to are used with a sort of range or interval, in which the action occurs throughout the entire interval. So I'll be here until 5pm means I'll be here at 1pm, 2pm, 3pm, etc. all the way until 5pm; likewise, I walked up to the edge means I walked really close, then closer, and closer, all the way up to the very edge.

    To me, it sounds weird to say I walked up to the bus stop because, unlike an edge, a bus stop doesn't really denote the end of a range/interval. It's simply a place.
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Till / Until is temporal; the spatial equivalent is up to.
    (2) Spatial
    a. I walked up to the edge.
    b. Paint the wall up to here, please.
    c. I climbed up to the top.
    I don't agree with the underlined (or at least these are not examples of of what you are trying to say). "Up" indicates direction in all of them, i.e. all but c) can use "down to" and "over to" and the meaning would remain other than the direction of travel. c) cannot be over or down only be cause "climbing to the top" is up. In all of them, "up" can be removed without changing the meaning.
     

    brian

    Senior Member
    AmE (New Orleans)
    You're right that other prepositions like down and over can (and sometimes must) be used when the action has a specific direction associated with them. I was just being general, since usually up to is the general form used, especially in the more metaphorical senses, as with my numeral examples.

    As for the walked up to the edge example, I consider that one general: up does not indicate an up direction (as it does with, say, climb up). The direction of walking to an edge is lateral/horizontal, not vertical. (Also, I don't think up/down have any horizontal direction associated with them, e.g. forward/backward, since we can say both walk up the street and walk down the street to refer to horizontal forward walking.)
     
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