To Be Problem

Rajan123

Member
India, Hindi
In the below sentence no. 1, How do we know that I have to add "to be" in the sentence. Is there any specific rule to know that I have to use "to be" here?

a) Here I know "continuing" is a participle.
b) "a cause of concern" is a noun.
c) "a cause of concern" is the object of "continuing".
d) Here "Participle-continuing" is connected with "a cause of concern" through nonfinite verb "to be"

But my main stress is how should I know that I have to use "to be" after "continuing".

1. Fresh from a resounding victory over England, an upbeat India will begin a two-match one-day series against arch rivals Pakistan on Monday with the poor form of seniors players continuing to be a cause of concern
 
  • Rajan123

    Member
    India, Hindi
    Hello Tarant,

    I disagree with you on it.

    It cannot be Gerund as you said. My reason is gerund / Noun can be replaced by "IT". So just I am doing a test to identify it. "Continuing" cannot be involved in "IT"

    .......Pakistan on Monday with "IT" continuing to be a cause of concern

    continuing is a participle. For this the test is :

    Q. What is continuing?
    Ans. Poor Form of Senior Players.

    My main Question is : Why we have to use "to be" here. How do I know. Please concenterate on this only - why to be has been used here. :confused:
     

    heidita

    Banned
    Germany (German, English, Spanish)
    This is a good question as continue may be followed by gerund of infinitive. You might for a subordinate clause, where to be sounds more correct:

    with the poor form of senior players which continues to be a cause of concern.

    I have made a limited google search and found only one entry with

    continue being a cause of concern

    Nevertheless it does exist, so we may also use it, though the "feeling" is better for continue to be...
     

    Talant

    Senior Member
    I think I might be understanding you wrongly. Which one is your question: "Why do I have to use "to be" instead of "being" or any other form?" or "Why can't I use "continuing a cause of concern?" ?

    In the first case, the correct phrasal verb is "continue to" do something. In this case, then, "continuing to be"

    In the second case, I still say that "a cause of concern" is the object of "to be". You can see in the sentence "the poor form of senior players is a cause of concern"
     

    Rajan123

    Member
    India, Hindi
    Dear All,

    I am still confused.

    I know there are some verbs which are followed by gerund and infinitive. Continue is also one of them. But in my example, "continuing" is a a participle. Can in the case of partciple also we can say that it can be followed by Gerund or infinitive.

    Regards
     

    elroy

    Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    "Continuing" is a participle.
    "To be a cause of concern" is an infinitive phrase, functioning as the direct object of the participle.
    "A cause of concern" is the predicate nominative object of the infinitive "to be."

    I hope that helps clarify things.
     

    Rajan123

    Member
    India, Hindi
    Hello elroy,

    I have explained these things you have mentioned in my first post in this thread. But can you please explain how I will know that I have to add "to be" ?

    elroy said:
    "Continuing" is a participle.
    "To be a cause of concern" is an infinitive phrase, functioning as the direct object of the participle.
    "A cause of concern" is the predicate nominative object of the infinitive "to be."

    I hope that helps clarify things.
     

    heidita

    Banned
    Germany (German, English, Spanish)
    I supposed my post was clear enough, as continue is normally followed by to+infinitive.

    Even if continue is here in the form of a gerund, the rule remains the same, continue is followed by to+infinitive.

    Look at my post again and try to google continue being.

    The fact is that continuing being is actually possible (it gives 12 results in google) but continuing to be is the form to use (15.500 results)
     

    Rajan123

    Member
    India, Hindi
    In response to your post earlier, I had query that was it possible that Gerund or paritciple canbe followed by infinitive or Gerund, like the case of verbs. I request you to confirm it.

    But I think it got skipped from your attention and did not get any reply.

    Second pls. see the post of elroy. There it is mentioned that "continung" is a participle, you are saying gerund. :confused:



    heidita said:
    I supposed my post was clear enough, as continue is normally followed by to+infinitive.

    Even if continue is here in the form of a gerund, the rule remains the same, continue is followed by to+infinitive.

    Look at my post again and try to google continue being.

    The fact is that continuing being is actually possible (it gives 12 results in google) but continuing to be is the form to use (15.500 results)
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    You can say "continue being", "continue eating", "continue talking" - it is very common in spoken English. The infinitive can, of course, also be used after "continue" - this sounds a little more formal.

    So, the present participle "continuing" can, indeed, be followed by the infinitive. In your sentence, "continuing" is a present participle. It would be a gerund if used in the following way:

    Because I could not convince him by logical argument, my continuing was pointless. This sentence uses a part of the verb "to continue" as a noun, so it is a gerund.

    Can you follow a gerund with an infinitive? I think you can. My continuing to argue with him was pointless.

    Can you follow a gerund with a gerund? No, certainly in no examples I can think of.
     

    heidita

    Banned
    Germany (German, English, Spanish)
    Are we having a discussion about terminology?

    Whether continuing is here a gerund or a present participle (to be more precise) is not to the point, as the result is the same. I have answered your question .

    Continue, in whatever form you may find it (as I posted before!!!!!) is (as a general rule) followed by to+infinitive.
     

    Rajan123

    Member
    India, Hindi
    Thanks for your reply.

    So we can say that Not only Verbs but also Partciple / Gerund can be followed by Infinitive / Gerund.

    Second thing I wanted to know that in my example -

    .....continuing can be written as which continues to be a cause of concern. Can in my example continuing can be written as which is continuing to be a cause of concern. ?

    Regards


    emma42 said:
    You can say "continue being", "continue eating", "continue talking" - it is very common in spoken English. The infinitive can, of course, also be used after "continue" - this sounds a little more formal.

    So, the present participle "continuing" can, indeed, be followed by the infinitive. In your sentence, "continuing" is a present participle. It would be a gerund if used in the following way:

    Because I could not convince him by logical argument, my continuing was pointless. This sentence uses a part of the verb "to continue" as a noun, so it is a gerund.

    Can you follow a gerund with an infinitive? I think you can. My continuing to argue with him was pointless.

    Can you follow a gerund with a gerund? No, certainly in no examples I can think of.
     

    heidita

    Banned
    Germany (German, English, Spanish)
    This mission perhaps justified his continuing being a Muslim, in the sense that his religion

    To show his continuing being an idiot: WD still believed that Microsoft will put a iPod

    Emma, I think I am right, as in the examples above ( googled) continuing is a gerund ( I wish Lazarus were here!) and followed by ing. There were only 4 results, by the way. Interesting, actually, because I personally always teach: continue +to+infinitive.
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    Gerund cannot be followed by gerund. You need to be clear about the difference between a gerund and the present participle.

    You wouldn't be able to say "which continues" or "which is continuing" in your example as it stands because you have used the construction "with the poor form of senior players". If you wanted to use "which continues" or "which is continuing", you would have to write:

    an upbeat India will begin a series against Pakistan, despite the poor form of senior players, which continues/which is continuing to be a cause for concern.

    Or you could say which is a continuing cause for concern.
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    Hi Heidita. I was disagreeing with your statement, "continuing, in whatever form you may find it, is, as a general rule, followed by to + infinitive". You, yourself, have just posted some examples of the gerund NOT followed by to + infinitive!
     

    Rajan123

    Member
    India, Hindi
    Hello emma,

    So we can say participle can be followed by infinitive / gerund.

    Somebody told me that which continues = continuing.
    so thats why in my example, I replaced "continuing" with "which continues".

    What you explained me about that in my example it is not possible to add which continues / which is continuing. Can you please tell me the reason / rule for it.
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    If you add a "which" clause to this sentence in the place you suggest, the sentence will read:

    India will begin a series against Pakistan on Monday with the poor form of senior players, which.....So, the emphasis in that sentence will be "the poor form of senior players". But you want the emphasis to be on the fact that India will begin a series against their arch-rivals, Pakistan.

    With the "which" clause, you are continuing to put the emphasis on "the poor form of senior players".

    Without the "which" clause , "the poor form of senior players" is an additional piece of information to the main point of the sentence, which is the fact that India and Pakistan will be playing against eachother.

    Does that make it any clearer?
     

    french4beth

    Senior Member
    US-English
    Rajan123 said:
    1. Fresh from a resounding victory over England, an upbeat India will begin a two-match one-day series against arch rivals Pakistan on Monday with the poor form of seniors players continuing to be a cause of concern
    If you diagram the sentence:
    Subject = India + Verb = will begin + Direct Object = a series
    Dependent Clause (sentence fragment) = 'continuing to be a cause of concern' where 'continuing' is a participle verb.

    From usingenglish.com:
    A present participle is used with the verb 'to be' to indicate an action that is incomplete
     

    french4beth

    Senior Member
    US-English
    Rajan123 said:
    .....continuing can be written as which continues to be a cause of concern. Can in my example continuing can be written as which is continuing to be a cause of concern. ?
    I don't think you can use this form as it would be a run-on sentence; if you want to re-write the sentence, you could say:
    Despite the poor form of senior players, an upbeat India will begin a series against Pakistan. The seniors' poor form continues to be a cause for concern.
     

    french4beth

    Senior Member
    US-English
    emma42 said:
    Hi french4beth. Is the information in my post #19 correct?
    :thumbsup:
    Yes. Since you re-worded the sentence, the use of 'which' is correct in post #19, in my opinion. However, I wanted to point out to Rajan that in the original example, the use of 'which' would sound awkward (to my ears, any way!).

    I just wanted to clarify & offer an additional example; when faced with a lengthy sentence, I prefer to divide & conquer!

    I'm not a grammar expert, though...
     

    elroy

    Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    french4beth said:
    If you diagram the sentence:
    Subject = India + Verb = will begin + Direct Object = a series
    Dependent Clause (sentence fragment) = 'continuing to be a cause of concern' where 'continuing' is a participle verb.
    Your terminology is not accurate. "Continuing to be a cause of concern" is not a dependent clause; it is a participial phrase. "Continuing," as stated above, is a participle, not a verb. A participle is a verb form used as an adjective.

    Also, replacing "continuing" with "which continues" would make for an awkward (and possibly inaccurate) sentence but certainly not a run-on.

    As for the question about what can follow participles and gerunds-

    Participles, gerunds, and infinitives are verb forms used as other parts of speech. Nevertheless, they can take the same complements and modifiers as the verbs that correspond to them.

    Examples:

    I run to my house every day. (verb + two adverbial phrases)
    Running to my house every day is invigorating. (gerund + two adverbial phrases = gerund phrase. This gerund phrase is the subject of the sentence.)
    Running to my house every day, I quickly get tired. (participle + two adverbial phrases = participial phrase. This participial phrase is used as an adjective modifying the subject "I.")
    I want to run to my house every day. (infinitive + two adverbial phrases = infinitive phrase. This infinitive phrase is used as a noun, as the object of the verb "want.")
    I am too tired to run every day. (infinitive + adverbial phrase = infinitive phrase. This infinitive phrase is used as an adverb modifying the adverb "too.")
    I have two miles to run every day. (infinitive + adverbial phase = infinitive phrase. This infinitive phrase is used as an adjective modifying the noun "miles.")

    Notice that participles are always adjectives; gerunds are always nouns; and infinitives can be nouns, adverbs, or adjectives.

    As for what can follow the specific verb/verb form "continue," as has been mentioned above it can be followed by either an infinitive or a gerund - depending on the context and the sentence.

    I continue to be amazed by his intelligence.
    You need to continue studying if you want to pass the test.

    A gerund, too, can be followed by either an infinitive or a gerund:

    Continuing to study is the way to go if you want to pass the test.
    Rejecting swimming as a sport is a ludicrous notion.

    I hope that helps answer all questions that have been posed thus far. If not, do let me know. :)
     

    emma42

    Senior Member
    British English
    I am so sorry, Rajan. I said that a gerund cannot be followed by a gerund, but it clearly can, as per the example given by Elroy above. I am so ashamed!
     

    french4beth

    Senior Member
    US-English
    elroy said:
    Your terminology is not accurate. "Continuing to be a cause of concern" is not a dependent clause; it is a participial phrase. "Continuing," as stated above, is a participle, not a verb. A participle is a verb form used as an adjective. Here, I meant to say that the phrase starting with 'continuing' could not stand alone, and thus was dependent on the rest of the sentence (perhaps I didn't use the correct terminology).:eek:

    Also, replacing "continuing" with "which continues" would make for an awkward (and possibly inaccurate sentence) but certainly not a run-on.
    In the original example (not emma's) I felt that the insertion of the word 'which' would be awkward.
    I was hoping that by diagramming the sentence, it would make more sense & thus be easier to examine.


    I guess it's time for a tea break for me!
     

    elroy

    Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Addressing your remarks...
    french4beth said:
    Originally Posted by elroy
    Your terminology is not accurate. "Continuing to be a cause of concern" is not a dependent clause; it is a participial phrase. "Continuing," as stated above, is a participle, not a verb. A participle is a verb form used as an adjective. Here, I meant to say that the phrase starting with 'continuing' could not stand alone, and thus was dependent on the rest of the sentence that I agree with (perhaps I didn't use the correct terminology yes, it was imprecise. A clause contains a subject and a verb. This phrase is a phrase, which cannot stand alone as a sentence by definition. Thanks for clarifying what you meant! :)).:eek:

    Also, replacing "continuing" with "which continues" would make for an awkward (and possibly inaccurate sentence) but certainly not a run-on.
    In the original example (not emma's) I felt that the insertion of the word 'which' would be awkward. Right - I was talking about that sentence too. I just wanted to emphasize that it would not be a run-on, which is two or more independent clauses incorrectly joined by a comma or nothing at all (terminology again ;)).
     

    french4beth

    Senior Member
    US-English
    elroy said:
    Addressing your remarks...
    Note to self: I should always check what the actual definitions of phrases are instead of creating my own definitions! :eek:

    Beth's version of 'run-on sentence': a sentence that runs on and on and on
    Actual definition of 'run-on sentence' (found here)
    A run-on sentence consists of two or more main clauses that are run together without proper punctuation. Sometimes even sentences which are technically correct are easier to read if they are made into shorter sentences.

    Beth's version of 'dependent clause' - clause that depends on another clause
    Actual definition of 'dependent clause' (found here - at least I was close):
    The dependent clause is the subordinate idea of the sentence... is dependent on another clause for meaning and context... are dependent on the rest of the sentence for meaning and should not be evaluated outside of the sentence.
     
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