to come

Frank06

Senior Member
Nederlands / Dutch (Belgium)
Hi,

I was wondering about the verb 'to come', in the meaning of moving to a certain direction.
If I understood well, there are two (three, four) possible meanings:
(a) moving towards the speaker;
(b) moving towards the interlocutor;
(c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);
(d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).

In English this can all be expressed by the verb 'to come' (as in Dutch, 'komen'). If I'm not wrong, also French 'venir' can be used in the four occasions.

I was wondering how this is expressed in other languages, I mean, which verb(s) is (are) used to express those 2/4 meanings. I am not really wondering about modes or tenses, but only about the lexical item, word itself, the infinitve, let's say.

Are there languages which do require several verbs to express the meanings (a) to (b)?

Thanks in advance.

Groetjes,

Frank
 
  • linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    In Urdu/Hindi & Gujarati, it's the same word for all of them.
    (I'm actually not sure if I understand your question correctly, but I'm sure they're the same word):

    URDU: آنا (aanaa)
    HINDI: आना (aanaa)
    GUJARATI: આવું (aavu)
     

    robbie_SWE

    Senior Member
    Trilingual: Swedish, Romanian & English
    In Romanian it's "a veni" (the same as the French word venir) and it can be used for all the presented cases. In Swedish, I would say that "att komma" is the equivalent. It is used in the same way as in German and English.

    :) robbie
     

    Chazzwozzer

    Senior Member
    Turkish
    (a) moving towards the speaker;
    "Gelmek"(to come) is used.
    (b) moving towards the interlocutor;

    "Gelmek"(to come) is used.
    (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);
    Normally, "gelmek"(to come) is not used unless interlocutor is there. We say "gitmek"(to go) instead.
    (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).
    "Gelmek"(to come) is used.
     

    jazyk

    Senior Member
    Brazílie, portugalština
    If I understand it correctly, I think it would be in Portuguese:

    (a) moving towards the speaker;
    vir (to come)
    (b) moving towards the interlocutor;
    ir (to go)
    (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);
    ir (to go)
    (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).
    ir (to go)
     

    Thomas F. O'Gara

    Senior Member
    English USA
    Spanish follows suit with Portuguese, as in most, but not all, things. "Venir" means to move toward the speaker. "Ir" is for movement toward the interlocutor, and to where the speaker or interlocutor will be. Very confusing for English speakers, and I presume speakers of other languages, based on what I see here. What do you say when somebody rings your doorbell? In Spanish - "Voy" - i.e., "I'm going."

    In the case of Russian (and I think most Slavic languages) the issue is a bit more complicated. The base verb ходить/идти means both "to come" and "to go." You distinguish coming and going by prefixes added to the verb, which imply various degrees of arriving, going up to, going away from, etc. Russian verbs tend to pack a considerable amount of information into any given form. The unprefixed forms can indicate either coming or going - Иди сюда = come here; Иди туда = go over there. The generic perfective form for the base verb is пойти, but in the absence of any specifying features in the sentence this is generally understood to mean "to go", i.e., to move toward the interlocutor, or where he will be.

    Which actually points out that the question isn't that simple, even in other languages. we may say "I'm coming" to a doorbell, but "I went to the door" when the action moves to the past.

    I realize that you're trying to avoid modes or tenses, but in Russian anyway there is no simple lexical item.
     

    cochagua

    Senior Member
    Spain/Spanish
    Frank06 said:
    In Spanish:
    (a) moving towards the speaker;
    venir
    (b) moving towards the interlocutor;
    ir
    (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);
    ir /venir
    (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).
    ir
    We also have a verb to say "come back" "volver"
     

    jazyk

    Senior Member
    Brazílie, portugalština
    If I understand it correctly, I think it would be in Portuguese:

    (a) moving towards the speaker;
    vir (to come)
    (b) moving towards the interlocutor;
    ir (to go)
    (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);
    ir (to go)
    (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).
    ir (to go)
    I'm here to disprove myself :)
    a) ir (to go)
    b)vir (to come)
    c) ir (to go)
    d) ir (to go)

    Sorry, this is due to my nonexistent sense of direction (I'm serious, I get lost in my own town). I'd still like another Portuguese speaker to check this for me, just in case.
     

    Vanda

    Moderesa de Beagá
    Português/ Brasil
    Jazyk, that's it. You are HERE. :arrow: , now turn right ...;)

    Nothing wrong with your verbs.
    a) ir (to go) - Vou a sua casa . (go)
    b)vir (to come)- Venha a minha casa. (come)
    c) ir (to go) - Estou indo/vou para o lugar combinado. (go)
    d) ir (to go) - same as above.
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    I think you are mistaken about French, Frank.

    Frank06 said:
    (a) moving towards the speaker;
    Venir.

    Frank06 said:
    (b) moving towards the interlocutor;
    Aller. (Unless the speaker and the interlocutor are together, in which case you can obviously use venir, as well). Contrast the two sentences:

    Il peut venir chez moi.
    He can come to my house.

    Il peut aller chez toi.
    He can come/go to your house.

    Frank06 said:
    (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);
    (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).
    This is more delicate. If the place where the speaker/interlocutor will be is perceived as "over here", then venir. If it's perceived as "over there", then aller. I'd say that it depends on whether the place where the speaker/interlocutor will be is closer to the place where he currently is, or to the place where his interlocutor currently is.

    I think this applies to all Romance languages. We clearly distinguish "coming" from "going", whereas English (and perhaps other Germanic languages, as well?) tend to blend the two concepts.
     

    ronanpoirier

    Senior Member
    Brazil - Portuguese
    Outisder said:
    I think this applies to all Romance languages.
    My father says that Italians say for example (in Portuguese):
    "I come to your house" (Eu venho na/à tua casa.) instead of "I go to your house" (Eu vou na/à tua casa.). If he's right, then Italian doesn't follow that "rule".
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    If I understand it correctly, I think it would be in Japanese:

    (a) moving towards the speaker;
    kuru (to come)

    (b) moving towards the interlocutor;
    yuku/iku (to go)

    (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);
    kuru (to come)

    (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).
    yuku/iku (to go)
     

    chaya

    Senior Member
    english (UK) French Spanish Italian
    IN FRENCH I have often heard the response, when ringing the door bell <j'arrive> = I'm coming.
     

    betulina

    Senior Member
    català - Catalunya
    Hi,

    I'll use examples to show it in Catalan, just in case I didn't understand the question right.

    (a) moving towards the speaker:
    "come to my house" -- vine a casa meva (verb venir - to come)

    (b) moving towards the interlocutor:
    "I'll come to your house" -- vindré a casa teva (verb venir - to come)

    (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet):
    In this case I'll explain the situation I understand: the speaker will be at the beach tomorrow at 9 o'clock and asks the interlocutor to go: "will you come?" -- vindràs? (verb venir - to come)

    (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet):
    If the interlocutor is the one who will be at the beach at 9.00, the speaker says: "I'll come" -- vindré (verb venir - to come)


    As far as I know (there might be influences), in Spanish is (a) and (c) venir (to come) and (b) and (d) ir (to go).

    If I'm misunderstanding situations, please let me know!
     

    Frank06

    Senior Member
    Nederlands / Dutch (Belgium)
    Hi all,

    I involuntary managed to unsubscribe myself from this thread, I think. Still don't know what I did wrong.
    I wanted to thank everybody so far for their replies to my (indeed) rather vague and unclear question! The main problem was indeed the usage of the verbs meaning 'to go' and 'to come' (or equivalents).

    Groetjes,

    Frank
     

    bb3ca201

    Senior Member
    English/Scottish Gaelic, Canada
    For us Gaels, it's easy -- we use "a' tighinn". (It's an irregular verb in Gaelic, too...so the forms differ depending on tense)

    I'm coming - tha mi a' tighinn
     

    franz rod

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    "I come to your house" (Eu venho na/à tua casa.) instead of "I go to your house" (Eu vou na/à tua casa.). If he's right, then Italian doesn't follow that "rule".
    It's quite different:
    if the other person is in his house: Vengo a casa tua (I come..)
    if not: Vado a casa tua (I go)


    In Italian:
    go: andare, muoversi, avanzare, recarsi, spostarsi
    go up: avvicinarsi
    come: venire, arrivare, giungere
     

    apmoy70

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Greek:

    Moving towards the speaker:
    «Έρχομαι» [ˈer.xɔ.me] < Classical deponent v. «ἔρχομαι» érkʰŏmai̯ --> to come, but also occasionally to go, travel (PIE *h₁er-/h₁ergʰ- to move, go cf Hitt. arške- to reach repeatedly, make incursions, Skt. ऋच्छति (r̥cchati), to move, reach, arrive at).

    Moving towards the interlocutor:
    Idem.

    Moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet):
    «Πηγαίνω» [piˈʝe.nɔ] or «πάω» [ˈpa.ɔ] --> to go, leave, depart.
    «Πηγαίνω» < Byz. Gr. «ὑπαγαίνω» ypagaí̯nō < Classical v.«ὑπάγω» hŭpágō > MoGr colloq. «πάω».
    The modern meaning of the verb (leave, go) is already present in Koine:
    (John 16:5) Nῦν δὲ ὑπάγω πρὸς τὸν πέμψαντά με, καὶ οὐδεὶς ἐξ ὑμῶν ἐρωτᾷ με, ποῦ ὑπάγεις; - But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ (NKJV)
    Moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet):
    «Πηγαίνω/πάω».
     
    Last edited:

    merquiades

    Senior Member
    English (US Northeast)
    Hi,

    I was wondering about the verb 'to come', in the meaning of moving to a certain direction.
    If I understood well, there are two (three, four) possible meanings:
    (a) moving towards the speaker;
    (b) moving towards the interlocutor;
    (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);
    (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).
    A tad complicated. 3 comes and 1 go in my English.
    A. Come over here. Can you come see me now?
    B. I'm coming over there. I'm coming to see you now.
    I'm coming (to open the door, answer the phone). Just let me finish what I'm doing first.
    C. Can you come over to Tom's tonight? I'll be there at 9pm.
    You can come to the theater this evening. We'll be in the back row.
    D. I'll go over there at 9pm. What time are you going?
    Let's meet and go to the theater later. The movie is at 9pm.
     
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