to control (check)

ThomasK

Senior Member
Belgium, Dutch
I'd like to know how you translate 'control' or 'check', as a verb with either direct object or indirect clause, as in : I have checked the oil (level), I wanted to see whether she needed anything.

This is not meant to be a double of my other thread, which focused on the extra meaning of controlling, i.e., keeping under control, even reducing.
 
  • ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    In Dutch, we can say controleren, but also:
    - nakijken, nagaan: after-watch, after-go...
    - checken

    I collected some elements from the former thread:

    - In Hungarian the verb is ellenőriz. It is made up of the prefix ellen- and the verb őriz. Ellen- means "contra", the verb őriz means to guard.
    ADDITION: átvizsgál means check, too. át- means through and vizsgál means examine
    - in ancient Greek with the verb «ἐλέγχω» (e'leŋxō) one described->controlling, verifying, putting someone to shame, cross-examining, correcting (and a few more).

    I hope to receive some more now. Thanks.
     
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    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    In Portuguese there are several translations, not fully synoymous but with considerable overlap between them:

    - controlar, historically borrowed from French contrôler (or the noun contrôle) sometime in the first half of the 20th century, though with obvious later reinforcement from English to control;
    - checar, borrowed from English to check, a more recent coinage mostly used in Brazil;
    - verificar, a cognate of to verify;
    - confirmar, a cognate of to confirm;
    - conferir, which in this sense is a cognate but a false friend of English to confer.
     

    Perseas

    Senior Member
    - in ancient Greek with the verb «ἐλέγχω» (e'leŋxō) one described->controlling, verifying, putting someone to shame, cross-examining, correcting (and a few more).
    We use ελέγxω also in modern Greek with same meanings. Also, τσεκάρω /tse'karo/ meaning "to check, to verify" and κοντρολάρω /kondro'laro/ meaning "to maintain the control", with their origins being obvious.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    So these verbs allow for both direct object and subclause, don't they? I do wonder whether confirmar and controlar are really the same: don't say 'confirmar that', but 'controlar whether'? And how do you use conferir then?

    I'd be interested to read something about the root of teh Greek 'tsekaro' as well. (Thanks !)
     

    mataripis

    Senior Member
    Exactly. Ang is the article (the) and Kung is "If" , there is/are = May . the first verb is not too strict , tignan = look/check while the second verb " Suriin" = search/ double check. Suriin is related to "Uri" (quality) so when using this word it means "Quality check".or Inspection.
     

    mataripis

    Senior Member
    yes. there are other words but this time i only remember "Kilatisin" (check / analyze/ inspect). 1.) Check/inspect/analyze which is appropriate for our standard/s.= Kilatisin ang nararapat sa ating pamantayan.
     

    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    So these verbs allow for both direct object and subclause, don't they? I do wonder whether confirmar and controlar are really the same: don't say 'confirmar that', but 'controlar whether'? And how do you use conferir then?
    I guess controlar is mostly used transitively — to control something or someone, including the sense of "to watch/check out/surveil/spy" —, although when I think about it controlar se (to control whether), while less common, might not raise too many eyebrows.*

    Confirmar and conferir have pretty much the same syntax and similar meanings. They can be used intransitively — check [it], I'll check [it], [it] checks —, or transitively — to check something, or to check whether some condition is met. These two may have more affirmative conotations, such as "to double check", and confirmar may additionally mean "to confirm/establish/prove". In other words, conferir usually has a tentative sense, while confirmar may be tentative as well, or more assertive.**

    Verificar is similar in meaning to conferir, but it's not used intransitively.

    The verb ver (to see) can also mean "to check".

    *Controlar is the only one of these verbs which can also mean "to command/regulate".
    **Conferir (but not confirmar) can also mean "to bestow", like "to confer" in English.
     
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    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Interesting notes ! Now, as for controlar se: that would not be the normal verb with us either, rather something like nakijken (after-look), nagaan (after-go).

    Could you comment on ' [it] checks'?

    I wonder about confirmar/ conferir. Can you use it with se? We could use zien (see) se, but not bevestigen (confirmar) se. However, the languages may be quite different, for sure...
     
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    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    I wonder about confirmar/ conferir. Can you use it with se? We could use zien (see) se, but not bevestigen (confirmar) se.
    Absolutely:

    Por favor confira/confirme/veja se a encomenda chegou ao destino em condições. "Please check/confirm/see if the package arrived at its destination in good condition."

    Could you comment on ' [it] checks'?
    Certainly. I may not have used the word "intransitive" correctly above. What I meant was that Portuguese is a null-subject language and sometimes the object can be left out as well, so the following exchanges would be perfectly normal:

    — A encomenda está em boas condições? "Is the package in good condition?"
    — Eu confiro/confirmo/verifico/vejo. literally: I (will) check/see [it].

    — A encomenda está em boas condições? "Is the package in good condition?"
    Confere. "Check." literally: [it] checks (out)
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I see now. The latter use is typically Portuguese, I suppose, thanks. As for confira: is there an etymological equivalent in French (or English) of that ? I can't see one (not that there needs to be one ;-)).
     
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    Outsider

    Senior Member
    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Conferir is a cognate of English "confer", but while the latter only means "to grant", the former can also mean "to check". I'm not sure about other Romance languages.
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    ...
    In Hungarian the verb is ellenőriz. It is made up of the prefix ellen- and the verb őriz. Ellen- means "contra", the verb őriz means to guard. ADDITION: átvizsgál means check, too. át- means through and vizsgál means examine ...
    Exactly.

    For confirmar and verificar, there are other verbs:
    megerősít - confirm (erős = strong, firm; meg-perfective prefix)
    igazol - verify (igaz = true)
     
    We use ελέγxω also in modern Greek with same meanings. Also, τσεκάρω /tse'karo/ meaning "to check, to verify" and κοντρολάρω /kondro'laro/ meaning "to maintain the control", with their origins being obvious.
    Just wanted to add to Perseas' erudite post, that both «κοντρολάρω» /kondro'laro/ (from control) and «τσεκάρω» /t͡se'karo/ (from check), are considered colloquialisms and cannot be employed in formal speech or formal writing.
    As for confirm/verification, we usually translate them as:
    A) «Επιβεβαιώνω» /epiveve'ono/ from the Classical verb «ἐπιβεβαιόω/ἐπιβεβαιῶ» ĕpĭbĕbæ'ŏō [uncontracted]/ĕpĭbĕbǣ'ō [contracted]; compound formed with the joining of the prefix and preposition «ἐπὶ» (ĕ'pi)-->upon, at, close upon (in space or time), on the occasion of, in addition + verb bĕbæ'ŏō [uncontracted]/bĕbǣ'ō [contracted]-->to establish, valid, determine, make good (modern Greek «βεβαιώνω» /veve'ono/ with same meanings). Etymologically it derives from the Classical verb «βαίνω» ('bǣnō, /'veno/ in modern pronunciation)--> to step, from PIE base *gʷā-, to go. Initially «ἐπιβεβαιόω/ἐπιβεβαιῶ» meant to step with certainty, later, to add proof, ratify.
    B) «Επαληθεύω» /epali'θevo/ from the Classical verb «ἐπαληθεύω» ĕpălē'tʰeuō--> to prove true, substantiate, verify; compound formed with the joining of the prefix and preposition «ἐπὶ» (ĕ'pi)--> upon, at, close upon (in space or time), on the occasion of, in addition + feminine noun «ἀλήθεια» ă'lētʰeiă (/a'liθia/ or /a'liθça/ in modern pronunciation)--> truth, realization (from privative prefix «α-» + fem. noun «λήθη» 'lētʰē, /'liθi/ in modern pronunciation--> forgetfulness, PIE base *leh₂-, to hide, cf. Latin latēre, to hide, lurk; therefore «αλήθεια» is the state of not being hidden; the state of being evident, i.e. factual).
     

    mataripis

    Senior Member
    We use ελέγxω also in modern Greek with same meanings. Also, τσεκάρω /tse'karo/ meaning "to check, to verify" and κοντρολάρω /kondro'laro/ meaning "to maintain the control", with their origins being obvious.
    The Greek" Eleg Hoh" means "To control" .Is it possible for that verb to have the meaning "Take care of" ? In Tagalog there is a word "Alaga" (pet or adopted or someone under one's supervision) and it's verb form is "Alagaan" = To take care. 1.) Take care of him/her.= alagaan mo siya.
     

    arielipi

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    In hebrew you have many words for that(one of the few, funny cases where hebrew has more than english), depends on what you want to check:
    validity - levade'/le'amet(this one is actually to valid 100%)/letakef(rare)
    look/see - lir'ot/lehistakel
    check/investigate/research - livdok
    control(as a 'boss') - lefake'akh
    control(in power) - lishlot
     

    arielipi

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    Theyre all in the right context(some of them are also used for other meanings) a variant of check, but each is individual.
    also
    control(in force[=army,police,etc]) - (in hebrew also shares command) lefaked, letzavot
    guide(in direction,lead) - lekaven, to misguide - leholich(also shares the commanding variant)
     

    e2-e4 X

    Senior Member
    Русский
    In Russian, checking is assosciated with truth. The verbs in use are:
    - 'проверить' ('to fortrue', that is, 'to verify a truth'). Some of its paronyms: 'верный' (adj, 'correct', also 'faithful', it. "fedele"), 'вера' (belief, either truly religious or religious in spirit), 'верить' ('to believe in something', 'to trust to somebody', 'to take some system of statements to be true');
    - 'убедиться' (lit. 'to convince oneself', that is, 'to make sure', 'to verify');
    - 'проследить' (lit. ~ 'to have a watch');
    - others (depends on the context).
     
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    e2-e4 X

    Senior Member
    Русский
    As for e-2, could you give me the roots and the pronunciation as well? Do I see a root like 'spect' and 'delit' respectively ?
    "проверить": the root is "вер", and it sounds as "ver" (must be a cognate to the English 'very' and Italian 'verità'). The prefix sounds as 'pro', and its meaning is very close to the meaning of the corresponding international (that is, Latin) prefix. "ить" (it') is a common verbal suffix.
    бедиться": the root is "бед" (the transliteration is "bed"), and there are so many words that have the same root, including such ones, as "беда" ('trouble', usually severe trouble) and "победа" (victory). I fail to see how the sense of the word developed; however, according to Max Vasmer, the original word was "беда" (trouble), and the word "убедить" (to convince) came from Church Slavonic. The prefix 'у' ('u') means 'at', 'about', and "ся" is a reciprocal suffix, seemingly related to the Italian "si", Spanish "se" etc, and pronounced in a similar way.
    "проследить": this is one of the perfective forms of the verb "следить", formed with the help of the prefix "про" (see above; here its meaning is closer to 'along the way [towards]'). The verb "следить" means 'to watch', fr. 'garder'; its root is "след" ("sled"), the word "след" means a trace, a track, a footprint.

    Sorry, I am not sure what you meant by your request for pronunciation. I can give a letter-by-letter transliteration (as I did in this post), if you think it's useful for you, but the transliteration doesn't give a precise pronunciation anyway, so I believe it's useless. We can't describe human speech in a few lines. :)
     
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    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    To be a bit more precise (perhaps it may help you):

    ellenőriz
    (ellen-against, őriz-guard - to check/control, i.e. (at least in thery ...) not only to see if it's "ok", but also to compare (that's why ellen) with existing orders/rules/prescriptions ... etc.
    átvizsgál (át-through, vizsgál-examine) - to check/control/examine ... more "general" and maybe also "subjective", though not superficial ...
    átnéz (át-through, néz-watch, look) - to check/revise, look through, look over ..., more "general" and also "subjective", even superficial ...
    megerősít (erős-strong) - to confirm (i.e. what has already been said/stated/supposed/proposed ...)
    igazol (igaz-true) - to verify, declare true ... (eventually, also presenting documents/proofs ...)
    felügyel (fel-up, ügy-"thing", issue, matter, cause ...) - to control, to oversee, to supervise ... (rather "online", not afterwards)

    None of the mentioned verbs has the meaning of "to have control on/to govern/to guide ...."
     
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    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, my starting point was that ‘to control’ in English has also come to mean ‘to keep under control’, whereas the first meaning was to verify. In Hebrew there seem quite some verbs to describe the act of controlling, and some for keeping under control, so it seems (lefake'akh, lishlot). I am not quite sure that the latter is quite correct. But could you give me the underlying root.

    As for Hungarian and Russian: very interesting to hear about the word structure and the roots – and to see there is no link with keeping under control.

    Yes, as I pointed out at the start, I believe: there is a plausible transition from one to the other. Every control is or requires some form of power, and/ or causes/ results in some form of power. Or so I think.
     

    arielipi

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    Every control does, but theres no relation between that and master.
    by saying underlying root what do you mean?(sorry, im not familiar with those requests -do you mean the structre of the word?)
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Mind you, those are not the technical words: the 'root word' is the central root word in a derivation (or compound?). Look at e-2's examples. The structure of some words in Dutch is often: prefix - noun/verb - suffix.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Yes, but in the meantime I found that for example lishlot is a root in itself, something like dominating.

    Yes, but in the meantime I found out that for example lishlot is a root in itself, something like dominating. I suppose the others will be root words too.
     
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    arielipi

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    Every one of them is a root.

    (Almost) Every word in hebrew is formed from roots,the li+word is the name of action a person does, much like "to X" (to divide) in english.
    The roots list for these is long as this one is long. Du have any more questions? feel free to ask.
     
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    Gavril

    Senior Member
    English, USA
    Well, my starting point was that ‘to control’ in English has also come to mean ‘to keep under control’, whereas the first meaning was to verify.

    I think it's worth pointing out that in modern English, the word control generally doesn't mean "check, monitor", although that was indeed its original meaning.

    For example, I just looked at the entry for control in a dictionary of US English, and "check, monitor" was not listed as even a secondary/tertiary/etc. meaning of the word, except in the technically-specific sense that is used in scientific experimentation. (E.g., a control sample is a sample used to "check" that an experiment is working as planned.)

    However, the "check" meaning seems to be very prominent in most, if not all, of the continental European cognates of control (Spanish controlar, German kontrollieren, Finnish kontrolloida, Polish kontrolować, etc. etc.), which can lead to translation errors of various kinds. Once, one of my relatives was crossing the border between two European countries (I don't remember exactly where), and a border guard came up to his car and said, in English, "Excuse me, we want to control you". :)
     
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