to knock / beat / strike / clap

ThomasK

Senior Member
Belgium, Dutch
At the Portuguese forum there was a reference to all kinds of knocking/ beating, all of them using bater. Yet, when asking for a translation into English, we get different verbs (but a native speaker ought to check on the verbs I chose):
- To knock on the door, on the window,
- we beat??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
- the clock strikes the time (when it sounds loud, of course),
- to clap (our hands), to clap (???) our teeth for cold, birds clap (???) their wings...
Feel free to add some more though

In Dutch I see parallels and some differences:
- op de deur kloppen (klop-klop), op het venster (onomatopeia...), we kloppen op de tapijten
- we slaan op het deeg, dough, I think, het hart slaat, de klok slaat het uur
- in de handen klappen, onze tanden klapperen (>>>W we klappertanden), de vogels klepperen met hun vleugels, wings (-eren indicates an iterative form)
 
  • To knock on the door, on the window,
    - we beat??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
    - the clock strikes the time (when it sounds loud, of course),
    - to clap (our hands), to clap (???) our teeth for cold, birds clap (???) their wings...
    Feel free to add some more though
    In Italian there are different verbs like in English:
    bussare alla porta - to knock at the door
    impastare e stendere l'impasto - to knead and beat the dough ?
    sbattere i tappeti - to beat the carpets
    L'orologio suona - scocca l'ora - segna but also batte l'ora - the clock strikes….
    We have bàttere le mani, i denti dal freddo… to clap our hands, one's teeth chatter when it is cold
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    In Italian there are different verbs like in English:
    bussare alla porta - to knock at the door
    impastare e stendere l'impasto - to knead and beat the dough ?
    sbattere i tappeti - to beat the carpets
    L'orologio suona - scocca l'ora - segna but also batte l'ora - the clock strikes….
    We have bàttere le mani, i denti dal freddo… to clap our hands, one's teeth chatter when it is cold
    Coudl bussare be onomatopaeic? Clapping hands is, I suppose…
    What could be the origin of "stendere"? Something like"stand"?
    Can you use four words for the clock? "Scoccare": Is there a link between shooting and beating? Is it not something like "dis-V"?
     

    Sardokan1.0

    Senior Member
    Sardu / Italianu
    Coudl bussare be onomatopaeic? Clapping hands is, I suppose…
    What could be the origin of "stendere"? Something like"stand"?
    Can you use four words for the clock? "Scoccare": Is there a link between shooting and beating? Is it not something like "dis-V"?
    I think that "stendere" comes from "extendere" (to stretch)

    Regarding Sardinian language, we use many different verbs, like in Italian.

    1. tzoccare sa janna - to knock the door (the verb "tzoccare" is related to the noun "tzoccu" = noise)
    2. cumassare - to knead the dough (the verb derives from Vulgar Latin "cum massare" = to ammass with)
    3. iscuttinare sos tappetos - to shake the carpets (from Latin "excutere" = to shake; from this verb also derives the verb "iscudere" = to beat)
    4. su rellozu toccat sas horas - the clock tolls the hours (in this case the verb "toccare" is not the same verb of "to touch", but when speaking about clocks and bells it means "to toll")
    5. tzoccare sas manos - to make noise with the hands (to clap the hands)
    6. ballare sas dentes pro su frittu - to "dance" the teeth for the cold
     
    At the Portuguese forum there was a reference to all kinds of knocking/ beating, all of them using bater. Yet, when asking for a translation into English, we get different verbs (but a native speaker ought to check on the verbs I chose):
    - To knock on the door, on the window,
    - we beat??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
    - the clock strikes the time (when it sounds loud, of course),
    - to clap (our hands), to clap (???) our teeth for cold, birds clap (???) their wings...
    Feel free to add some more though

    In Dutch I see parallels and some differences:
    - op de deur kloppen (klop-klop), op het venster (onomatopeia...), we kloppen op de tapijten
    - we slaan op het deeg, dough, I think, het hart slaat, de klok slaat het uur
    - in de handen klappen, onze tanden klapperen (>>>W we klappertanden), de vogels klepperen met hun vleugels, wings (-eren indicates an iterative form)
    Greek:

    - «Κτυπώ» [ktiˈpɔ] or «χτυπώ» [xtiˈpɔ] with dissimilation, and colloquially «κτυπάω» [ktiˈpa.ɔ] or «χτυπάω» [xtiˈpa.ɔ] respectively --> to knock, hit, beat < Classical denominative v. «κτυπέω/κτυπῶ» ktŭpéō (uncontracted)/ktŭpô (contracted) --> to crack, rumble < Classical masc. noun «κτύπος» ktúpŏs --> strong noise, cracking, stamping (probably onomatopoeic but for Beekes of Pre-Greek origin, with variation between voiced and unvoiced stop: «δουπέω» (doupéō) vs «κτυπέω» (ktŭpéō)).

    - We usually do not beat the carpets to dust them, we «τινάζω» [tiˈna.zɔ] them --> to sway, shake, quake, toss, flip, twitch < Classical v. «τινάσσω» tĭnắssō --> to sway, shake, quake (without a certain etymological explanation).

    - «κτυπώ»

    - Idem
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    Some options in Spanish:

    Golpear. To knock something (the door for example).
    Aporrear. Like golpear but insistently and strongly.
    Picar. To knock the door.
    Pulsar. To press a button or a doorbell
    Martillar and martillear. To knock something with a hammer.
    Batir. That's, for example, what you make with the eggs to cook a dessert.
    Aplaudir: to clap.
    Dar palmas: to make palmas (a sort of musical rythm made with your hands)
    Sacudir:
    beat??? the carpets to dust them
    to clap (???) our teeth for cold
    That would be rechinar in Spanish but it isn't related with knocking but with the sound that results from the knocking.
    we beat?? the dough to make cakes
    Amasar in Spanish.
    Agitar: For example, what you make with the bottle of orange juice before drinking it.
     
    Coudl bussare be onomatopaeic? Clapping hands is, I suppose
    It shouldn't be onomatopoeic. According to some etymologists, it could come from High German buchsen, English box. For others, the etymology of the verb is related to the Provencal word polsar, akin to Spanish and Portuguese pulsar, pujar puxar...
    Etimologia : bussare;
    What could be the origin of "stendere"? Something like"stand"?
    It comes from Latin extendere. The etymology of stand is different, its root is similar to the Latin stare.
    Can you use four words for the clock? "Scoccare
    Yes, we can. Obviously, each verb has a slightly different meaning. As for scoccare, it is related to shoot with a bow and an arrow
    Applaudire
    obviously exists in Italian as well, but it has a slightly broader meaning than to clap your hands - bàttere le maniP

    P.S. sbàttere derives from battere with the prefix S, like in many other verbs, conveying an intensive or an augmentive meaning.
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Russian has a separate verb for knocking (imperf. стучать - stuchát') - prototypically, "to repeatedly strike into something; to make noise by such striking" (cf. also perf. "стукнуть" - stúknut' - which means making a singular strike of that kind).
    There is also a verb for clapping (imperf. хлопать - khlópat', perf. хлопнуть - khlópnut'; curiously, it seems unrelated to the Germanic verb).
    It also has ударить (udárit', perf.) / ударять (udaryát', imperf.) - meaning "to strike"/"to hit" (the imperfective verb implies making separate strikes many times), бить (bít'), which means, quite unsurprisingly, "to beat", and the largely synonymous, but stylistically limited колотить (kolotít'). Plus, unlike English, it also widely uses its derivative morphology to produce other verbs with related meaning. Beating the carpets, for example, will be described by the verbs выбивать or выколачивать (imperf. vybivát, vykoláchivat'), literally "to beat (or rather be beating) out"; cf. perf. выбить (výbit'), выколотить (výkolotit') - "to have sth beaten out".
    P.S.: We've also forgotten about slapping - Rus. "шлёпать" (shlyópat', imperf.), "шлёпнуть" (shlyópnut', perf. singular).
     
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    Yendred

    Senior Member
    Français - France
    French:

    To knock on the door, on the window :arrow: Frapper à la porte, à la fenêtre
    To beat (???) the carpets to dust them :arrow: Battre les tapis pour les dépoussiérer
    To beat the dough to make cakes :arrow: Pétrir la pâte pour faire des gâteaux
    The heart beats :arrow: Le cœur bat
    The clock strikes the time :arrow: L'horloge sonne l'heure
    To clap (our hands) :arrow: Taper des mains
    To clap (???) our teeth for cold :arrow: Claquer des dents
    Birds clap (???) their wings :arrow: Les oiseaux battent des ailes
     
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    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    At the Portuguese forum there was a reference to all kinds of knocking/ beating, all of them using bater. Yet, when asking for a translation into English, we get different verbs (but a native speaker ought to check on the verbs I chose):
    - To knock on the door, on the window,
    - we beat??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
    - the clock strikes the time (when it sounds loud, of course),
    - to clap (our hands), to clap (???) our teeth for cold, birds clap (???) their wings...
    Catalan:

    - to knock on the door / the window = trucar a la porta / la finestra. (The same verb trucar is used for phoning: Truca-li 'Phone him/her')
    - to beat the carpets (to dust them) = espolsar les catifes (espolsar is, literally, to dust something: < es-pols 'dust'-ar)
    - (a clock/bell) to strike (the time) = (un rellotge/campana) tocar (les hores): the clock struck two = el rellotge va tocar les dues (literally, to touch)
    - to clap (our hands) = aplaudir or picar de mans *
    - to clap? (our teeth, because of the cold) = serrar (les dents) (if we mean, to close them tightly) or = carrisquejar or fer clac / fer petar (les dents) (if we mean, to make a noise)
    - (birds) to clap (their wings) = (els ocells) batre (les ales) (batre is the closest to beat in English, as it is also used in Catalan for the heart beat, whisking eggs, defeating someone, achieving a record...)

    For beating = hitting someone or something, donar un cop or colpejar are used.

    * picar can also be used for 1 (picar a la porta) or, more rarely, 2 (picar les catifes), among many other uses unrelated to beating.
     

    Armas

    Senior Member
    Finnish
    Finnish:
    - To knock on the door - koputtaa ovelle
    - Beat the carpets - tampata, from old Swedish damb "dust". I associate tampata with beating with the carpet-beater, mattopiiska "carpet-whip". (There is another, unrelated verb tampata which means "to tamp, to pack down" snow). Another verb is pu(d)istaa/pu(d)istella which means to shake/beat? carpets and to shake head. Also tomuttaa < tomu "dust".
    - The clock strikes - kello lyö "hits, strikes, beats"
    - The heart beats - sydän lyö
    - To clap hands - taputtaa käsiä
    - To flap wings - räpyttää siipiä, the same verb means "to blink eyes"
    - The teeth beat from cold - hampaat kalisevat
    - To knead a dough - vaivata taikinaa, this verb also means "to trouble"
    - To whisk cream - vatkata/vispata kermaa
    - A lightning strikes - salama iskee
    - A mugger beats his victim - ryöstäjä pieksee uhrinsa
    - To strike with a sword - sivaltaa miekalla
     

    Armas

    Senior Member
    Finnish
    P.S.: We've also forgotten about slapping - Rus. "шлёпать" (shlyópat', imperf.), "шлёпнуть" (shlyópnut', perf. singular).
    Finnish: läpsäyttää, läpsyttää, läpsytellä, läpsiä, läimäyttää, läimiä, läiskäyttää, läiskiä, lätkäistä, lätkiä, lätkäyttää
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    This battipanni/mattenklopper (tapijtenklopper) reminded me of a vliegenmepper, literally a fly-beater (but I notice that it is a swatter, fly-flap, fly swatter in English). Meppen is not that common in Dutch, I would say, but we can use the word when we hit hard (a slap, een mep). But I turned this into a new thread...
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    "Flyswatter" is "мухобойка" (mukhobóyka) in Russian (lit. ~"fly-beater", although it should be noted that "beating" and "killing" are very closely related in Russian, as well as in most Slavic languages). Formed from the same root, although under the old IE ablaut.

    "Carpet-beater" is "выбивалка" (vybiválka, ~"outbeater"), or, more descriptively, "выбивалка для ковров" (...dlya kovróv, i.e. "for carpets").

    P.S. Some people may call the both "хлопушка" (khlopúshka, ~"clapper"), as I remember, but it's also the word for a (fire)cracker, a pop gun (this colloquial usage is outdated, I believe) and a slapstick (should be rather historical already).
     
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    Don't you use carpet-beaters in Greece? They are very useful tools - also for mattresses, sofas...
    battipanni <---
    Of course we do, but we do not use the verb beat (usually) even when we do beat the carpets to dust them, we say either «τινάζω» or «ξεσκονίζω» [k͡se.skɔˈni.zɔ] --> lit. to de-dust (MoGr prefix «ξε-» [k͡se-] + fem. «σκόνη» [ˈskɔ.ni]).

    Battipanni is (i) «κόπανος» [ˈkɔ.pa.nɔs] (masc.) --> pounder, beater < Classical neut. «κόπανον» kópanŏn --> butchering knife, axe (from Classical v. «κόπτω» kóptō), (ii) «δάρτης» [ˈðar.tis] (masc.) --> hitter, batterer < MoGr «δέρνω» [ˈðer.nɔ] --> to hit, smack, batter, beat (from Classical v. «δέρω» dérō), (iii) «ξεσκονιστήρι» [k͡se.skɔ.nisˈti.ɾi] (neut.) --> de-duster.
    The latter is the most commonly used.
     

    Yendred

    Senior Member
    Français - France
    In French, a carpet-beater can be called batteur de tapis (a hand tool to beat the carpet with), or tape-tapis (more colloquial, or used to refer to a fixed device used to beat the carpet on, generally reserved for smaller carpets, e.g. car floor mats).
     
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    Vukabular

    Banned
    Serbian
    In Serbian:
    - To knock on the door, on the window - Kucati na vrata. Čukati na vrata.
    - heart beat - otkucaj srca
    -
    the heart is beating - srce kuca
    -
    hammering nails - zakucavati eksere; kucati eksere; čukati eksere
    - the clock strikes the time - sat otkucava
    Palindromes are common in Serbian language so: kuc > cuk > čuk ("big hammer") > ček ("small hammer" -suffix for diminutive). Words "kucati" i "čukati" are synonyms and word "čuka" means hart or clock depends on the context
     

    Vukabular

    Banned
    Serbian
    This is interesting: the same root for all these verbs. No such examples until now, I think.
    That is common in Serbian. For example from the onomatopoeic root kov (product made by forging) from which the following words are derived:
    kovač ("blacksmith")
    kovačnica ("forge")
    nakovanj ("anvil")
    kovanica ("coin")
    kovnica ("coin factory")
    okov ("shackles", "chains")
    zakovica ("rivet")
    raskovnik (plant "Laserpitium siler", common name "laserwort") literally translated as "the one who takes off the shackles". According to Serbian folk belief, this plant has magical powers to open every lock, to remove every shackle, and to remove all spells.
     

    Zareza

    Senior Member
    Romanian
    - A bate/ciocăni la ușă/fereastră= to knock on the door/window (cioc (onomatopoeia)=knock)
    - A bate covoarele = to beat the carpets to dust them
    - A-i bate inima / A bate din aripi = the heart beats / to beat its wings
    - A bate ouăle/frișca = to beat the eggs up / to whip the cream
    - A bate toba = to beat the drum (Also figurative A bate toba = to tell everyone somebody's secret)
    - A bate ora (fixă) = the clock strikes the time
    - A bate din palme = to clap (our hands)
    - A bate la șah = to beat at chess

    bătător = a carpet-beater, a mat knocker // bătător = outdoor carpet hanger / carpet stand / carpet rack

    In Germany an outdoor carpet hanger for beating is called a Teppichstange (carpet bar) or Klopfstange.
    In Poland it is called trzepak (a noun from the word trzepać, "to beat"; the beater itself is called trzepaczka).
    In Romania the outdoor carpet hanger was an important meeting place for children who may use it as a playground. The girls were little Nadia Comaneci, the gymnast.
     

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    Vukabular

    Banned
    Serbian
    Battipanni is (i) «κόπανος»kɔ.pa.nɔs] (masc.) --> pounder, beater < Classical neut. «κόπανον» kópanŏn --> butchering knife, axe (from Classical v. «κόπτω» kóp), (ii) «δάρτης»ðar.tis] (masc.) --> hitter, batterer < MoGr «δέρνω»ðer.nɔ] --> to hit, smack, batter, beat (from Classical v. «δέρω» dérō), (iii) «ξεσκονιστήρι» [k͡se.skɔ.nisˈti.ɾi] (neut.) --> de-duster.
    The latter is the most commonly used.
    Interesting!!!
    Proto-Indo-European:
    *(s)kop- (“to strike, to beat”) perhaps ("to dig" - hitting, beating ground)
    Serbian:
    kop "mine" An excavation from which ore or solid mineralsare taken, especially one consisting of underground tunnels.
    kopati "to dig"
    kopito "hoof"
    kopačke "football shoes"
    pokopati "bury it"
    Kopaonik a mountain in Serbia with ancient mines
    English:
    gopher noun - a tortoise of dry sandy regions that excavates tunnels
    gopher verb - excavate at random
    copper - a red-brown metal

    Proto-Indo-European *der- (“to split, to separate, to tear ”)
    Serbian:
    derač "skinner"
    poderotina "tear", "rip"
    odrati "to remove skin"

    Ancient Greek:
    δέρμα (dérma, “skin, hide”)
    δέρω (dérō, "I skin, flay")

    English:
    dere (Britain dialectal "Hurt; harm; injury.")

    Serbian:
    udar ("stroke, hit, attack, strike, impact")
     

    Vukabular

    Banned
    Serbian
    - we beat??? the carpets to dust them, - we beat?? the dough to make cakes, the heart beats,
    bat m. "club, cudgel, mallet"
    batina f. "club, cudgel, mallet"
    batine "beating"
    batak "a chicken leg"
    but "ham" - butt
    butina "thigh" - butt

    eng. battle???
     

    Armas

    Senior Member
    Finnish
    Proto-Indo-European:
    *(s)kop- (“to strike, to beat”) perhaps ("to dig" - hitting, beating ground)
    Serbian:
    kop "mine" An excavation from which ore or solid mineralsare taken, especially one consisting of underground tunnels.
    kopati "to dig"
    kopito "hoof"
    kopačke "football shoes"
    pokopati "bury it"
    Finnish has kuoppa "pit (hole in the ground)" from Proto-Finnic *kooppa. Verbs: kuopia "to dig (with one's hoof, paw, foot)", kuopata "to bury". It's probably just a coincidence.
     

    Vukabular

    Banned
    Serbian
    Finnish has kuoppa "pit (hole in the ground)" from Proto-Finnic *kooppa. Verbs: kuopia "to dig (with one's hoof, paw, foot)", kuopata "to bury". It's probably just a coincidence.
    I don't believe in coincidence, here are more words related to hit, digging and hole: Czech kop ("kick"), Danish kop ("cup"), Dutch Hou je kop! ("Shut your hole!"), Polish kop ("hit or strike with the leg or foot"), Slovene kọ̑p ("hoe" -digging tool), English scoop ("the digging attachment on a front-end loader")
     
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