to lose

D

Dymn

Senior Member
Catalonia, Spain
Catalan
Hi :)

It seems there are two really different meanings in English for the verb "to lose", which however are united under the same verb too in the languages I know:

1. To stop having in one's possession by accident or unwillingly:
I lost my wallet.

2. To not win a competition:
The team lost the match.

Catalan: perdre
1. He perdut la cartera.
2. L'equip ha perdut el partit.

Spanish: perder
1. He perdido la cartera.
2. El equipo ha perdido el partido.

etc.

What about your languages?
 
    • In Hindi, the words that naturally come to my mind for these sentences are different:

    मेरा बटुआ खो गया है | (the verb is khōnā)

    टीम मैच हार गई | (the verb is hārnā)
     
    The same verb in Greek:

    «Χάνω» [ˈxano̞] --> to lose, miss < Byzantine Greek verb «χάνω» /ˈχɐnɔ/ (idem) < Koine Greek verb «χαόω-χαῶ» /kʰɐˈoɔː/ (uncontracted)-/kʰɐˈɔ̂ː/ (contracted) --> to utterly destroy, devour, a denominative from the Classical neuter noun «χάος» /ˈkʰɐos/ --> chaos, infinite space, nether abyss (a connection with the adjective «χαῦνος» /ˈkʰɐŷ̯nos/ --> slack, porous, bloated, puffed up, frivolous is followed by most linguists < IE *ǵʰeh₂n- to break open, yawn cf. Proto-Germanic *gōmô > Eng./Dan. gum; Toch. B kāyā --> to open wide).

    -«Έχασα το πορτοφόλι μου» [ˈe̞xas̠aˌt̠o̞po̞ɾt̠o̞ˈfo̞limu] --> I lost (1st person Aorist singular) my wallet
    -«Η ομάδα έχασε το παιχνίδι» [io̞ˈmaðaˈe̞xas̠e̞ˌt̠o̞pe̞ˈxniði] --> the team lost (3rd person Aorist singular) the game
     
    Different verbs in Russian.
    1. терять (teryát'), perf. потерять (poteryát'):
    Я потерял мой кошелёк. (Yá poteryál móy koshelyók.) - I lost my wallet/purse.
    2. проигрывать (proígryvat'), perf. проиграть (proigrát'); also "to spend a specific amount of time playing"; literally ~"to play through":
    Команда проиграла матч. (Kománda proigrála mátch.) - The team lost the match.
     
    There are some other meanings for to lose.
    One of the most common IMHO is to "misplace" something.
    I lost my glasses, have you seen them?
    Yes, they're on the kitchen table.


    Spanish also has some uses of perder that lose lacks.
    Miss.. Hoy no puedo venir. Lo siento. He perdido el tren.
    Waste... Estás perdiendo el tiempo con ése. Es una bala perdida.
     
    Olaszinhok said:
    Same in Italian
    1: Ho perso/perduto il portafogli
    2: La squadra ha perso/perduto la partita
    The verb pèrdere has two past participles one is regular and the other is irregular, the latter is a bit more common.
    Click to expand...
    When I first read the question and thought of an answer, I thought I'd write that "perduto" is a bit more literary and uncommon, not really used in everyday conversations. I guess it depends, once again, on local usages!
     
    symposium said:
    When I first read the question and thought of an answer, I thought I'd write that "perduto" is a bit more literary and uncommon
    Click to expand...
    In my opinion, the past participle veduto can be considered more formal or literary compared to visto. On the other hand, both perso and perduto are still alive and kicking, perso is just a bit more common nowadays. Apparently, perduto is still more common in writing, you can have a look at this:
    Perso o perduto? Visto o veduto? - Consulenza Linguistica - Accademia della Crusca

    P.S. I am a middle-aged man, perhaps teenagers and very young speakers may have a different point of view.
     
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    Ok so for now we have Russian and Hindi that use different verbs. I think Chinese has two different verbs too:

    1. To lose the wallet: 丢 (diū)
    2. To lose the match: 输 (shū)

    merquiades said:
    One of the most common IMHO is to "misplace" something.
    I lost my glasses, have you seen them?
    Yes, they're on the kitchen table.
    Click to expand...
    I think this is the same meaning as 1, although I may have not defined it properly.

    merquiades said:
    Spanish also has some uses of perder that lose lacks.
    Miss.. Hoy no puedo venir. Lo siento. He perdido el tren.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, and note with events and such the reflexive is used: perderse un evento, perderse el programa.
    Perderse     is also "to get lost".

    Circunflejo said:
    In Catalan, estar derrotat.
    Click to expand...
    Ser derrotat, a passive like in Spanish, but it's not an idiomatic way to speak anyway.
     
    Dymn said:
    Ser derrotat, a passive like in Spanish, but it's not an idiomatic way to speak anyway.
    Click to expand...
    That's curious, there are about the same results for ha estat derrotat than for ha sigut derrotat. I don't know why the former sounded more natural to me but I'm not a native and I don't know too much Catalan.
     
    Cymraeg/Welsh

    colli     (vn) in both senses.

    But do you also have the idea of 'miss' (not 'manquer', @Yendred, but 'rater') in the sense of 'missing the bus by being late', for example? In this case, Welsh also uses colli.
     
    Welsh_Sion said:
    the idea of 'miss' (not 'manquer', @Yendred, but 'rater') in the sense of 'missing the bus', for example.
    Click to expand...
    :thumbsup:
    The 1990' movie Home Alone was translated into French as "Maman, j'ai raté l'avion" (lit. Mom I missed the plane).

    4627669.jpg
     
    Swedish:
    Jag har förlorat min plånbok - I have lost my wallet.
    De har förlorat matchen - They have lost the game.

    We can also use the word tappa (bort) (drop) for lost in daily speech.
    Jag har tappat min plånbok - I have lost/dropped my wallet.
    Jag har tappat bort mina glasögon - I have lost/mislaid my glasses.
    De har tappat ledningen i matchen - They have lost/dropped the lead in the game.
     
    merquiades said:
    There are some other meanings for to lose.
    One of the most common IMHO is to "misplace" something: I lost my glasses, have you seen them? Yes, they're on the kitchen table.
    Click to expand...
    Interesting note, also found in Swedish, etc. But I think this meaning fits into the first as a dramatic meaning of losing: you seem to have lost it, whereas it can be assumed to have been misplaced, not really lost. The context will show that this is the particular meaning we need. No?

    Taking that extra distinction into account, Dutch might have these variants:
    - ik heb mijn portefeuille verloren
    - ik heb verloren, ik heb de wedstrijd verloren
    EXTRA: ik ben iets kwijt     in the sense of I am in a "situation of loss", like when you become aware of missing your wallet, glasses, bag: I do not have it any longer (and I know/ guess I have lost it somewhere or misplaced it).
     
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    I think there is a big difference between
    I lost $1,000 at blackjack. (Will never see it again)
    I lost my glasses. (Misplaced but they will show up.)
    There is a permanent/ temporary distinction
     
    ThomasK said:
    Just wondering: i understand "losing one's life", but is this a specific verb only for the combination with "life"??? That is amazing to me? Does this kind of losing have a special semantic aspect as such?
    Click to expand...
    Losing one's life is a metaphor for to death. Of late, many euphemisms have been formed as "die" sounds more and more harsh.
    He lost his life, his battle.
    He passed away
    He has left us
    He met his maker
     
    Circunflejo said:
    In Spanish, with that meaning, you could use too ser derrotado. In Catalan, estar derrotat.
    Click to expand...
    +
    merquiades said:
    Yes. To be defeated
    Click to expand...
    We have the deponent verb too «ηττώμαι» [iˈt̠o̞.me̞] --> to be defeated < Attic deponent denominative verb «ἡττάομαι-ἡττῶμαι» /hɛːt.ˈtɐ.omɐi̯/ (uncontracted)-/hɛːt.ˈtɔ̂ː.mɐi̯/ (contracted) --> to be less than another, inferior, be defeated, discomfited, worsted, beaten, give way, yield (Classical v. «ἡσσῶμαι» /hɛːs.ˈsɔ̂ː.mɐi̯/) < adj. «ἥσσων» /ˈhɛːs.sɔːn/ (Attic «ἥττων» /ˈhɛːt.tɔːn/) --> smaller, weaker, ultimately from the adverb «ἧκα» /ˈhɛ̂ː.kɐ/ --> slowly, quietly, a little (it has been connected with Latin sēgnis). Cognate with «ήττα» /ˈi.t̠a/ (fem.) --> defeat < Classical feminine noun «ἧττα» /ˈhɛ̂ːt.tɐ/ --> defeat, discomfiture.
    So, «η ομάδα ηττήθηκε» [io̞ˈma.ða.iˈt̠i.θice̞] is possible --> the team was defeated (3rd person singular mediopassive Aorist) but it's considered tv cliché language, or bookish.
     
    Arabic uses different verbs. For to lose as in ~ a match/battle, ~ money on an investment, ~ a friend/beloved one/personal contact, ~ love or other emotions we use خسر.
    For losing something/someone physically we use أضاع which is the causative form of ضاع which means to be lost.
     
    merquiades said:
    I think there is a big difference between
    I lost $1,000 at blackjack. (Will never see it again)
    I lost my glasses. (Misplaced but they will show up.)
    There is a permanent/ temporary distinction
    Click to expand...
    I must admit: in practice that is a fundamental distinction, just like losing one's hand or a limb. Quite true. But my hypothesis is that the fundamental meaning gives rise to variants, that may be less, er, fundamental (in this situation: missing one's glasses but fearing to have lost them ---- which I spontaneously (tend to) do). Meaning 1b? But I must admit: m-w.com considers misplacing #2 and lose forver #3. You might be quite right indeed.
     
    ThomasK said:
    I must admit: in practice that is a fundamental distinction, just like losing one's hand or a limb. Quite true. But my hypothesis is that the fundamental meaning gives rise to variants, that may be less, er, fundamental (in this situation: missing one's glasses but fearing to have lost them ---- which I spontaneously (tend to) do). Meaning 1b? But I must admit: m-w.com considers misplacing #2 and lose forver #3. You might be quite right indeed.
    Click to expand...
    These verbs are the same in Belgian Dutch too?
     
    Circunflejo said:
    That's curious, there are about the same results for ha estat derrotat than for ha sigut derrotat. I don't know why the former sounded more natural to me but I'm not a native and I don't know too much Catalan.
    Click to expand...
    Both estat and sigut are past participles of the verb ésser / esser / ser, not of estar, in a passive context.
     
    merquiades said:
    Losing one's life is a metaphor for to death. Of late, many euphemisms have been formed as "die" sounds more and more harsh.
    He lost his life, his battle.
    He passed away
    He has left us
    He met his maker
    Click to expand...
    Quite so indeed, we have the expression too, but use it only with sudden deaths, I think.

    However, @Drakonica:I meant to refer to the verb itself: is it really losing simply or is something more implied in that? Google T suggests semantic links with wasting and forfeit... But of course that does not mean anything as such! Could it not have a negative connotation? Not like losing simply, but losing due to some act or something the like?
     
    Hungarian

    1/ elveszít - Elveszítettem a pénztárcámat.
    2/ elveszít - Elveszítettük a meccset.

    so, yes, 1 verb
    There are 2 verbs in Slavic languages.
     
    Dymn said:
    1. To stop having in one's possession by accident or unwillingly:
    Click to expand...
    In Cantonese, it depends on the thing lost. We use one verb for less serious things (as in "lose your wallet", whether it's mislaid or gets stolen), and use other verbs for more serious things and for people (as in "lose your eyesight", "lose your job", "lose your parents" etc).
     
    Dymn said:
    I think Chinese has two different verbs too:

    1. To lose the wallet: 丢 (diū)
    2. To lose the match: 输 (shū)
    Click to expand...
    :tick: I can confirm it's correct in Standard Mandarin. The two characters above are simplified Chinese characters. The corresponding traditional Chinese characters are 丟 and 輸 respectively. For the first meaning you can also use 丢失/丟失 (diūshī) or 弄丢/弄丟 (nòngdiū). For the second meaning you can also use 落败/落敗 (luòbài) or 败北/敗北 (bàiběi).

    And they're different verbs also in Standard Cantonese, Standard Hakka and my Hakka dialect. The characters for the second meaning are the same as what Dymn mentioned:
    1. To lose the wallet: 跌 (Jyutping: dit3; pronunciation in my Hakka dialect: [t˭ɛt̚]; for pronunciations in various Hakka dialects, see 薪典)
    2. To lose the match: 输/輸 (Jyutping: syu1; pronunciation in my Hakka dialect: [su]; for pronunciations in various Hakka dialects, see 薪典)
     
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