to shortchange/short-change

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viajero_canjeado

Senior Member
English - Southeastern USA
論壇朋友們好,

口語情形下要用中文表示shortchange這個動詞,你們推薦要怎麼翻譯?

Don't shortchange yourself by copying others' homework.

有點像“騙自己”,可又不是相同的。我大概會說:「不要抄別人的作業。終究毫無幫助。」還是「終究幫助不到你。」不過我猜應該有更好的說法,對不對?

Moderator's Note: Several threads have been merged to create this one.
 
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  • Ghabi

    Senior Member
    Cantonese
    Perhaps the word "shortchange" has some connotation which I'm not aware of? To me it's just another way to say "deceive". If you want a more slangy word, perhaps you can use 忽悠, which has become very popular in Mainland these years. 蒙 is also a good one. Not sure if you use these in Taiwan, though.
     

    viajero_canjeado

    Senior Member
    English - Southeastern USA
    Perhaps the word "shortchange" has some connotation which I'm not aware of? To me it's just another way to say "deceive". If you want a more slangy word, perhaps you can use 忽悠, which has become very popular in Mainland these years. 蒙 is also a good one. Not sure if you use these in Taiwan, though.
    In this example, "shortchange" has a different feel to it than "deceive" would have. I'm guessing this usage comes from a transactional setting, where one is entitled to a certain amount of money but somehow ends up with less, thus becoming "shortchanged". As for the example, a teacher exhorts the students to not take shortcuts not because it would ultimately be a deception, but because after all's said and done they'd be gaining none of the benefits that they could have otherwise had. Maybe it's different from "deceive" because the copying of the homework is done in complete ignorance of the fact that the copier will sooner or later miss out on the positive effects of doing the task, so there's no instance of deception.

    Sometimes I think "shortchange" is similar to "selling oneself short", but maybe that's a question better suited for the English forum. :rolleyes:

    Oh, and 蒙, like in 蒙騙, is common in Taiwan.
     

    Ghabi

    Senior Member
    Cantonese
    Thanks for the explanation. Perhaps you can say 別誤了你自己, which is a bit like "don't do yourself a disservice".
     

    BODYholic

    Senior Member
    Chinese Cantonese
    論壇朋友們好,

    口語情形下要用中文表示shortchange這個動詞,你們推薦要怎麼翻譯?

    Don't shortchange yourself by copying others' homework.

    有點像“騙自己”,可又不是相同的。我大概會說:「不要抄別人的作業。終究毫無幫助。」還是「終究幫助不到你。」不過我猜應該有更好的說法,對不對?
    别为了按时提交功课,而自欺欺人的去抄袭别人的作业。
     

    midismilex

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese, Mandarin
    這句口語我們有。我們是說:

    "你又不是不會,幹嘛抄別人的。"

    嘻^_^,感覺出來了嗎? shortchange 在我們的口語裡,意思本來就不好抓的說。:D
     

    wonlon

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Cantonese
    我的試譯
    1. 不要抄襲功課,自欺欺人。
    2. 不要抄襲功課,自己給自己降格(~undermine your own character)。
     

    midismilex

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese, Mandarin
    I wonder if there's not an equivalent speech for that English sentence in Chinese in China? Why do you all translate shortchange into "自欺欺人"?:confused:
     

    FRee^ARouND

    Senior Member
    Mandarin - Mainland
    I wonder if there's not an equivalent speech for that English sentence in Chinese in China? Why do you all translate shortchange into "自欺欺人"?:confused:
    Thanks for the explanation. Perhaps you can say 別誤了你自己, which is a bit like "don't do yourself a disservice".
    Actually I think Ghabi did a great job, i.e., the most accurate translation I could thought and have seen so far which people do use it everyday while no one except the OP gave him credit for it and instead them gave OP what Ghabi did initially at post #2. Poor Ghabi.:( What's wrong with everybody or it's just me?:confused:
     
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    midismilex

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese, Mandarin
    FRee^ARouND, I still wonder if there's no equivalent Chinese speech for that English sentence in China (after reading your post on #10).

    Since there's an equivalent speech between Chinese and English, why do we have to translate something even Chinese people cannot understand well what that Chinese sentence says? Just like "What day is today?", we get a quick reaction that it is equivalent to our speech "今天星期幾?". Why do we have to translate it into "今天是什麼日(子)?"

    "忽悠、降格、矇、自欺欺人、誤了自己", are they equivalent to "又不是不會"? I really don't know how "你又不是不會" can be replaced to"你忽悠、你...." and still can make the translation 語意會通 in Chinese. You know what I mean, right?:)
     
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    FRee^ARouND

    Senior Member
    Mandarin - Mainland
    FRee^ARouND, I still wonder if there's no equivalent Chinese speech for that English sentence in China (after reading your post on #10).

    Since there's an equivalent speech between Chinese and English, why do we have to translate something even Chinese people cannot understand well what that Chinese sentence says? Just like "What day is today?", we get a quick reaction that it is equivalent to our speech "今天星期幾?". Why do we have to translate it into "今天是什麼日(子)?"

    "忽悠、降格、矇、自欺欺人、誤了自己", are they equivalent to "又不是不會"? I really don't know how "你又不是不會" can be replaced to"你忽悠、你...." and still can make the translation 語意會通 in Chinese. You know what I mean, right?:)
    Well I do not know in deed.:)
    So let's sort it out. In the explanation that OP gave us in the post #3, It's almost means 耽误(自己), Which can be abbreviated to 误. And we do use the following phrases in our daily life : 自己误了自己; 机关算尽太聪明,反误了卿卿性命(from 红楼梦), unless you Taiwanese do not read 《红楼梦》:p( just kidding , no offense) So, I think Ghabi gave the right answer on post #4. (Though it may can be translated as 自欺 etc., the OP had carefully and delicately defined this word in this context in post #3. I can't see any better translation other than 耽误/误 under this circumstance.)

    By the way, I'm don't know what is your point on
    "忽悠、降格、矇、自欺欺人、誤了自己", are they equivalent to "又不是不會"? I really don't know how "你又不是不會" can be replaced to"你忽悠、你...." and still can make the translation 語意會通 in Chinese. You know what I mean, right?
    With all due respect, I don't think it make any sense at all. Could you please make it clear for me?:p
     
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    SuperXW

    Senior Member
    I often criticize Cantonese-speaking friends for their translating of colloquial language into written language, because they don't use Mandarin in their daily lives as we do...But this time, I think all their answers are good. The mainland teachers do say 別自欺欺人, 別誤了你自己, even別給自己降格 etc. (I don't know Taiwan though.) To me, they ARE equivalent speeches of "don't shortchange yourself"...
    “你又不是不會,幹嘛抄別人的。” is also very idiomatic, perhaps having a very similar tone too. But I still feel the other answers are more close to the original meaning...
     

    midismilex

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese, Mandarin
    Funny.

    I wish to know how you both, FRee^ARouND and SuperXW, translate the whole sentece "Don't shortchange yourself by copying others' homework." (,if "別自欺欺人, 別誤了你自己, even 別給自己降格" will do.)

    抄別人的作業就是自欺欺人? 抄別人的作業就會誤了你自己? 抄別人的作業就是給自己降格? ....這是哪門子的中文呀??:confused:
     

    FRee^ARouND

    Senior Member
    Mandarin - Mainland
    Tell me how these sentences cannot be Mandarin Chinese : 不要因为(现在)抄别人作业结果(耽)误了自己(的前途)./ 抄别人作业最后误的是你自己.

    And of course, your "funny" imaginary translations do not count.
     

    midismilex

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese, Mandarin
    Tell me how these sentences cannot be Mandarin Chinese : 不要因为(现在)抄别人作业结果(耽)误了自己(的前途)./ 抄别人作业最后误的是你自己.

    And of course, your "funny" imaginary translations do not count.
    Ha, forget about it!

    If your translation is ok, then viajero_canjeado has no need to doubt what he ever translated on post #1.:)
     

    FRee^ARouND

    Senior Member
    Mandarin - Mainland
    Ha, forget about it!

    If your translation is ok, then viajero_canjeado has no need to doubt what he ever translated on post #1.:)
    One post a question about one's translation here do not necessarily mean his translations are incorrect. It just simply because OP is not sure about it, and that's all.

    There lies significant differences between
    「不要抄別人的作業。終究毫無幫助。」還是「終究幫助不到你。」
    and mine. (Assumed you're a "Mandarin native speaker" as you indicated;) )

    Somehow I want to quote your saying :
    Ha, forget about it
    :)
     
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    midismilex

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese, Mandarin
    One post a question about one's translation here do not necessarily mean his translations are incorrect. It just simply because OP is not sure about it, and that's all.

    There lies significant differences between and mine. (Assumed you're a "Mandarin native speaker" as you indicated;) )

    Somehow I want to quote your saying : :)
    :D :D :D

    Wish native speakers in Beijing could give a translation which any Chinese can understand well (for the whole sentence viajero_canjeado asking on post #1).
     
    自欺欺人有点故意回避本质问题的意思。
    不让接触到真相的意思
    忽悠是近年流行的词,有点愚弄,消遣的感觉。
    是比较古典的用法,通常用于严重的危害。如误国、误人、误终身等。
    降格一般是主动降低身份。韩语的“降格”“贬低”等词,一般不像英语一样,用作“影响评价/价值”的意思。
    糊弄不认真对待的意思。同时还有故意掩盖问题,让它看起来没问题的意思。有时可以表达损害别人的利益的行为。(如“卖东西以次充好”,“找钱故意少找装着不知道”等)

    我个人觉得糊弄最好。“糊弄自己”也是很常用的表达。
     
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    SuperXW

    Senior Member
    我不太理解midismilx的質疑。可能台灣的口語和教育文化不同?
    midismilx是說那些譯法很不自然,讓人聽不明白?
    在大陸,那些翻譯方法都是明白的,老師也確實會那樣講的。
    我還記得以前的老師一提起“抄作業”,就會說“自欺欺人”……
    是不是台灣老師不那樣講,所以你不認同?
    那樣就屬於文化差異啦!不用爭論……
    YangMuye的“糊弄”,我覺得也是很接近的口語說法。:)不過南方用不用這個詞,我就不知道了。
     
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    xiaolijie

    Senior Member
    UK
    English (UK)
    Welcome to the forum, Austin.Fan! :)
    Here is a dictionary entry for "short-change" in the above sentence: 亏待,受到亏待即受到不公平或不诚恳对待,通常为获得的少于应得的.
    It's always worth checking up in a dictionary when you come across an unfamiliar word.
     

    Austin.Fan

    New Member
    chinese
    first, thanks for your help, then i also want to ask a question , that some guys translate it to "我们这是在自欺欺人",do you think whether this translastion is exact to the letter?
     

    xiaolijie

    Senior Member
    UK
    English (UK)
    do you think whether this translastion is exact to the letter?
    I think "我们这是在自欺欺人" says more than what is within "We short-change ourselves", so only the context can tell you for sure whether it's an appropriate translation. No, it's not "exact to the letter".
     
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    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Here are some examples of the context that may influence the interpretation of "short change oneself":
    1. 亏: "We do not short-change ourselves when we don’t receive from another the equivalent of what we have given." http://cjoybellc.blogspot.ca/2009/12/more-beautiful.html
    2. (e.g., 畫地自, 故步自封): "We short change ourselves by not trying new things, going to new places, having something different for dinner on Sunday nights...My motto is, if a new and exciting opportunity appears in front of you, grab it and go." http://www.seniorlivingmag.com/articles/dandahumphreys
    3.
    : "We short change ourselves when we believe that "keeping busy" or "getting back to our daily work life" will keep us focused and out of pain." http://www.cherokeeangel.com/Death, Dying, Grief, and Loss.htm

    "Short-change" often, though not always, implies
    "deceit", either cheating someone by not returning him enough money, or depriving someone of something by deceit. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/short-change
     
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    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Regarding the sentence "Don't shortchange yourself by copying others' homework", the OP of the above link said:
    they'd be gaining none of the benefits that they could have otherwise had.
    So 誤, 最后自己吃
    Sometimes I think "shortchange" is similar to "selling oneself short"
    sell oneself short = settle for less than one's best =

    To others, that sentence may entail a different connotation:
    To me it's just another way to say "deceive".
    So, it is 自.

    Can anyone think of a Chinese expression that could include the connotations of 自, 自限, and 欺 all in one phrase?
     
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