To work vs. to make it work

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ThomasK

Senior Member
Belgium, Dutch
(a)) Great, it has worked!
(b) Great, I have succeeded (in making it work)!
(b') Great, I have passed (the test)!

I think "to work" and "succeed" are linked semantically but what are the translations in your language? Please add some comment on the word you use (meaning, use, maybe etymology)

(I also wondered: could "succeed" be considered a causative? I think not, where "to make something work" can be considered a causative)
 
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  • ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Dutch:
    (a) lukken (think of luck in English): Perfect, het is gelukt.
    (b) slagen in (succeed in): Perfect, ik ben erin geslaagd!
    (b') slagen voor (pass the exam): Perfect, ik ben geslaagd! (Ik ben geslaagd voor het examen)
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    There is no direct counterpart to "succeed" in Russian. There are reflexive "удасться" and "получиться" (udást'sya, poluchítsya), but they have a kind of reversed government model (in English "someone succeeds in something"; in Russian, "to someone something *gives itself*" or "at someone something *takes itself*", apparently with the underlying ancient idea that your success doesn't really depend on you but rather on your fate or other obscure external circumstances). The alternatives are the phrases like "to reach/conquer success", which seem to emphasize the result and are much less colloquial.

    Curiosly, "to work" in the more figurative sense (as in your example, apparently) is expressed by the same verb as "to work" in the basic sense, i.e. "работать" (rabótat'; cf. Germ. arbeiten); the perfective counterpart still demands a specific derivation, though - "срабо́тать" (srabótat').

    And no, "succeed" isn't causative by definition and isn't directly related to working (basically it's "to make one's own plans come true"; succeeding necessarily implies a goal, one's actions aimed at achieving it, and the result).
     
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    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    @Awwal12 Very interesting: you can only refer to luck "befalling" you then? I like the variant. We have the difference too between [-pers.] "lukken" and [+pers.] "slagen", and the letter does not exist in my dialect. We would have to say that someone has been able to do something. I suppose you could say that too. Would that make a big difference? To me it would not, thinking in Dutch...

    But "to reach/ conquer success": , different, indeed, and right now I do not see a good equivalent in Dutch.

    "Work" would not work in Dutch. Werken would be understood as functioning. (Just BTW: I thought I knew the term "perfective" but here I am not sure: is that one of the (typical?) Slavic aspects?

    But isn't "to make something work" in that figurative some kind of causative? Are you referring to the literal meaning?

    Thanks in advance!
     
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    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    A) Ha funcionado. (To function)
    B) He triunfado/he tenido éxito. (To triumph/to have success).
    C) He aprobado el examen. (From Latin approbo). Pasar (to pass) is also used in some contexts.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    @Circunflejo On question only: "exito" is success, but not exit, so I gather from Google T (but of course...)

    Or no, another one as well: are (b) in English and (b) in Castilian equivalents? I am just wondering about "triunfado". Trimuphing (...) seems stronger than succeeding to me. Joe Biden has succeeded in winning the elections but he has not been triumphant, I would say. ;-) But maybe your word has a different meaning.
     

    AutumnOwl

    Senior Member
    Swedish, Finnish
    Swedish:
    a) Härligt, det lyckades; Härligt, det funkade (fungerade).
    b) Härligt, jag lyckades; Härligt, jag klarade det (I made it).
    c) Härligt, jag klarade testet; Härligt, jag lyckades på testet. (passera en examen could be possible, but it sounds odd/Swenglish to me).
     
    Greek:

    (a) «Μπράβο, δούλεψε!» [ˈbra.vɔ ˈðu.le.p͡se] --> Great, it (has) worked!; the verb «δούλεψε» is aorist 3rd person sing. (used for impersonal constructions) of the verb «δουλεύω» [ðuˈle.vɔ] --> to work, be employed < Koine v. «δουλεύω» douleú̯ō --> to serve, be subject, be a slave < Classical denominative v. «δουλόω/δουλῶ» doulóō (uncontracted)/doulô (contracted) --> to enslave < Classical masc. noun «δοῦλος» doûlŏs --> born bondman or slave (the Mycenaean word *δόελος *dóĕlŏs point to a borrowing from Carian of Lydian (Anatolian IE languages), difficult to account for chronologically).

    (b) «Μπράβο, τα κατάφερα!» [ˈbra.vɔ ta kaˈta.fe.ɾa] --> Great, I succeeded (the object of the v. «τα» is in plural, standing for affairs, issues, problems etc.); the verb is aorist 1st p. sing. of the present tense v. «καταφέρνω» [ka.taˈfer.nɔ] --> to manage, succeed, achieve < Classical v. «καταφέρω» kătăpʰérō --> to bring down, descend, sink, pull down, demolish, carry back, bring against, a compound = prefix and preposition «κατά» kătắ + verb «φέρω» pʰérō.

    (c) «Μπράβο, πέρασα!» [ˈbra.vɔ ˈpe.ɾa.sa] --> Great, I passed; the v. is aorist 1st p. sing. of the v. in present tense, «περνάω/περνώ» [perˈna.ɔ] (uncontracted)/[perˈnɔ] (contracted) < Classical denominative v. «περάω/περῶ» pĕráō (uncontracted)/pĕrô (contracted) --> to pass through, go beyond, reach the end, cross < Classical adv. «πέρᾱ» pérā --> beyond, further, longer, more, past (PIE *per- to go beyond, across cf Skt. परि (pari), beyond, Av. pairi- around, about, Lith. per, through, within, via, Proto-Slavic *per- > Rus. пере- inter-/trans-/over-).

    Note that in (b) & (c) «Mπράβο μου» [ˈbra.vɔ mu] --> Bravo (to) me can be used instead of a simple bravo!

    I don't see any semantic link between the three expressions. In the wildest stretch of the imagination, we can connect working with the extra work needed (especially in ancient times, with the limited technological advances they had achieved) to demolish or bring down a building, in (b) perhaps...but etymologically, I see no connection at all.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I only referred to (meant to refer) an underlying semantic link... In English (and ...) there is no etymological link at all. The only thing is see is that sometimes the (a) and the (b) verb are the same, as in Swedish. But you do agree that they refer to the same underlying event/ effect, I think. No?

    The idea of working (English, Greek) is intriguing to me, not self-evident. But of course functioning would be another possible description.
     
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    AutumnOwl

    Senior Member
    Swedish, Finnish
    But "to clear it"/... is the most common translation then, without an object., for both [+/- pers.] subjects...
    The Swedish klara / klara av, I would translate it as manage, for example "han klarade (höjden) i första försöket" (he cleared/managed the height in the first try), or "kan du klara (av att öppna) dörren utan hjälp?" (can you manage to open the door without help?), the words within parentheses not necessary in situations when it's understood what is meant.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    I quite agree. I just recognized the adj. "klaar"/ the V "klaren" in Dutch, and even the expression "de klus klaren" (to fix a job, ...), and therefore used "clear". But "manage" would have been better, for sure! Thnx
     

    Włoskipolak 72

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Polish

    Great, it has worked! = Świetnie, to zadziałało , to podziałało , udało się !
    to work = działać ,pracować ,funkcjonować, skutkować

    Great, I have succeeded (in making it work)! = Świetnie udało mi się , powiodło mi się.

    succeed in something = udawać się (coś zrobić) to do something , odnosić sukces, powieść się.

    The project succeeded after a year of efforts.
    Projekt odniósł sukces po latach wysiłków.

    If our plan works out, we'll become millionaires. = Jeśli nasz plan się powiedzie, ( się uda ) , zostaniemy milionerami.
    work out = sprawdzać się, powieść się, udawać się

    Great, I have passed (the test)! = Świetnie zdałem egzamin !
    (to) pass = zdać , zdawać

    I passed my driving test! = Zdałem egzamin na prawo jazdy!


    German / Polish

    gelingen czasownik gelingt, gelang, ist gelungen = udawać się, odnosić sukces, powieść się
    klappen czasownik klappt, klappte, hat geklappt = otwierać, stukać, trzaskać, pot. udawać się, powodzić się,
     
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