Tongue - language

R

Rainbowlight

Senior Member
Spanish
Hello everyone,

I am interested to know how the English word "tongue" gets translated into your language. I'm also interested in the languages in which the word "language" does not derive from the part of the body known as "the tongue". Spanish (lengua and lenguaje), French (langue and langage, Italian (lingua and linguaggio) have words that clearly derive from one of the terms. But what about those who don't?

I can't wait to read your answers.

Thanks for your time and help.
 
    • In Chinese, "language" does not derive from "tongue"
    language: 语言(yuyan), both 语 and 言 mean "say"
    it would be ~语 in a compound word, e.g. 外语=foreign languages
    tongue:
    1. a part in the mouth: 舌头(shetou)
      舌 alone conveys the meaning of "tongue", but in modern Chinese we tend to add 头, which means "the tip of ~".
    2. a language: 语言/~语/~言
      mother tongue: 母语(muyu), 母=mother
      local tongue: 当地语言(dangdiyuyan)/方言(fangyan)
    3. a particular way of speaking
      The translation may vary depending on the circumstances, usually 说话~(shuohua)
      He has a sharp tongue: 他说话尖酸刻薄→他言辞刻薄(more literary)
      I'll thank you to keep a civil tongue in your head：请你说话礼貌些
     
    In Greek the word for tongue & language is the same:
    «Γλώσσα» [ˈɣlo̞s̠a] (fem.) < Classical feminine noun «γλῶσσα» ˈ/glɔ̂ːsːɐ/ --> tongue, language, dialect from PIE *glōgʰ-s- point possibly related to the word for hawthorn in Russian глог /gɫɔg/, Czech hloh /ɦɫɔx/ and several other Slavic languages.
    -The Ancient Greeks preferred «διάλεκτος» /diˈɐlektos/ (fem.) for language, which is a compound of the preposition «διά» /diˈɐ/ + verb «λέγω» /ˈlegɔː/.
    -In Pontic Greek (the language spoken by the Greek population living up to the early 1920's in the southern Black Sea coastline or northern Turkish shores) language is λαλίαν [laˈlian] (fem.) an inherited word from Ancient Greek, «λαλιά» /lɐliɐ́ː/ (fem.) --> talk, chat, an onomatopoeia (compare German lallen, lellen, to babble).
     
    In Hindi, the main words for the anatomical tongue are जीभ (jībh, < Sanskrit jihvā) and ज़बान (zabān, < Persian). The main words for language are भाषा (bhāṣā, < Sanskrit), बोली (bolī, < Prakrit bollā), and ज़बान. Only ज़बान means both the anatomical tongue and language.
     
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    Beat me to it, @AndrasBP - but for completeness note that tafod (n.m.f.) can also mean 'language'. (Cf. GPC 'tafod' and also Cymdeithas yr Iaith's booklet y Tafod (being Tafod y Ddraig - the Dragon's Tongue, and all the relevant puns which go with that image.)

    Additionally, tafod can also mean 'a scolding' as in 'rhoi pryd o dafod i rywun' ('giving someone a meal of [one's] tongue'. Again, cf. GPC).

    Tongue also is a type of food. (Again: tafod - GPC.)
     
    Catalan does as the rest of Romance languages. That is,

    it uses the same word for tongue and language:

    llengua ['ʎeŋgwə]​
    ​
    but distinguishes between llengua (= linguistic system) and

    llenguatge [ʎəŋ'gwaʤə] = 1, ability to communicate; 2, way of expressing one's thoughts; 3, vocabulary of a specific art, branch of science, or profession.​
     
    Shirleen said:
    In Chinese, "language" does not derive from "tongue"
    language: 语言(yuyan), both 语 and 言 mean "say"
    it would be ~语 in a compound word, e.g. 外语=foreign languages
    tongue:
    1. a part in the mouth: 舌头(shetou)
      舌 alone conveys the meaning of "tongue", but in modern Chinese we tend to add 头, which means "the tip of ~".
    2. a language: 语言/~语/~言
      mother tongue: 母语(muyu), 母=mother
      local tongue: 当地语言(dangdiyuyan)/方言(fangyan)
    3. a particular way of speaking
      The translation may vary depending on the circumstances, usually 说话~(shuohua)
      He has a sharp tongue: 他说话尖酸刻薄→他言辞刻薄(more literary)
      I'll thank you to keep a civil tongue in your head：请你说话礼貌些
    Click to expand...
    Thank you very much. : )
     
    apmoy70 said:
    In Greek the word for tongue & language is the same:
    «Γλώσσα» [ˈɣlo̞s̠a] (fem.) < Classical feminine noun «γλῶσσα» ˈ/glɔ̂ːsːɐ/ --> tongue, language, dialect from PIE *glōgʰ-s- point possibly related to the word for hawthorn in Russian глог /gɫɔg/, Czech hloh /ɦɫɔx/ and several other Slavic languages.
    -The Ancient Greeks preferred «διάλεκτος» /diˈɐlektos/ (fem.) for language, which is a compound of the preposition «διά» /diˈɐ/ + verb «λέγω» /ˈlegɔː/.
    -In Pontic Greek (the language spoken by the Greek population living up to the early 1920's in the southern Black Sea coastline or northern Turkish shores) language is λαλίαν [laˈlian] (fem.) an inherited word from Ancient Greek, «λαλιά» /lɐliɐ́ː/ (fem.) --> talk, chat, an onomatopoeia (compare German lallen, lellen, to babble).
    Click to expand...
    Thanks for such a detailed answer. I do wonder if the Greek word "Γλώσσα" is somehow related to any words that indicate or refer to length. I can speak Galician and there seems to be a clear connection between the word "lingua" (meaning "tongue" and also "language") and the adjective "longo/a" (meaning "long").

    Very few concepts that seem intrinsically related to the human tongue (and thus define it) come to my mind spontaneously: "length", "movement" and "sheen" are three of them. It may be a happy coincidence, but I can't help but establishing a link between "Γλώσσα" and the English words "gloss" and "glossy". I would say that one of the characteristics of the human tongue is it glossy, wet appearance. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

    Thanks again for your help.
     
    desi4life said:
    In Hindi, the main words for the anatomical tongue are जीभ (jībh, < Sanskrit jihvā) and ज़बान (zabān, < Persian). The main words for language are भाषा (bhāṣā, < Sanskrit), बोली (bolī, < Prakrit bollā), and ज़बान. Only ज़बान means both the anatomical tongue and language.
    Click to expand...
    Thank you so much for your answer.
     
    Welsh_Sion said:
    Beat me to it, @AndrasBP - but for completeness note that tafod (n.m.f.) can also mean 'language'. (Cf. GPC 'tafod' and also Cymdeithas yr Iaith's booklet y Tafod (being Tafod y Ddraig - the Dragon's Tongue, and all the relevant puns which go with that image.)

    Additionally, tafod can also mean 'a scolding' as in 'rhoi pryd o dafod i rywun' ('giving someone a meal of [one's] tongue'. Again, cf. GPC).

    Tongue also is a type of food. (Again: tafod - GPC.)
    Click to expand...
    Thank you very much for the explanation. : )
     
    Penyafort said:
    Catalan does as the rest of Romance languages. That is,

    it uses the same word for tongue and language:

    llengua ['ʎeŋgwə]​
    ​
    but distinguishes between llengua (= linguistic system) and

    llenguatge [ʎəŋ'gwaʤə] = 1, ability to communicate; 2, way of expressing one's thoughts; 3, vocabulary of a specific art, branch of science, or profession.​
    Click to expand...
    Moltes gràcies per la teva ajuda. : )
     
    AndrasBP said:
    The two Baltic languages use different words:

    Latvian:
    mēle - tongue
    valoda - language

    Lithuanian:
    liežuvis - tongue
    kalba - language (> kalbėti = to speak)
    Click to expand...
    Thank you so much for your help. It has always strike me as an over-complication to use a completely different word to describe the term "language". One word (for example, Spanish "lengua" and "lenguaje") seems to naturally flow into the other.

    Thanks again for your help.
     
    fdb said:
    Not to overlook that Englosh "tongue", German "Zunge", also mean "language", "Sprache", but at an archaic or poetic register.
    Click to expand...
    I completely agree. Is there a reason why English and German chose the "tee" and the "zed" instead of the "el" present in most Romance languages? I am always wondering what's the relationship between these seemingly unrelated letters such as "tee" and "el".
     
    Rainbowlight said:
    I completely agree. Is there a reason why English and German chose the "tee" and the "zed" instead of the "el" present in most Romance languages? I am always wondering what's the relationship between these seemingly unrelated letters such as "tee" and "el".
    Click to expand...

    Latin "dingua" seems to be the predecessor of "lingua":
    dingua f (genitive dinguae); first declension (hapax)
    1. Pre-Classical form of lingua (attested in Gaius Marius Victorinus).
    Click to expand...

    Btw. German 'z' is pronounced /ts/ not /z/: Zunge: [ˈtsʊŋə].
     
    Rainbowlight said:
    I completely agree. Is there a reason why English and German chose the "tee" and the "zed" instead of the "el" present in most Romance languages?
    Click to expand...
    Actually it's the other way around, as Demiurg has correctly pointed out: it's Latin which turned /d/ into /l/. And it should be noted that "tongue" and "lingua" are still quite similar for words deriving from the reconstructed *dn̥ǵʰwéh₂s "tongue, language". You could never guess that [jɪ'zɨk] is also a cognate - but it actually is; the proto-Balto-Slavic form is reconstructed as *inźūˀ, with PIE /ǵʰ/ regularly producing /ź/ in P.B.-Sl; d- had been apparently truncated.
     
    Awwal12 said:
    Actually it's the other way around, as Demiurg has correctly pointed out: it's Latin which turned /d/ into /l/. And it should be noted that "tongue" and "lingua" are still quite similar for words deriving from the reconstructed *dn̥ǵʰwéh₂s "tongue, language". You could never guess that [jɪ'zɨk] is also a cognate - but it actually is; the proto-Balto-Slavic form is reconstructed as *inźūˀ, with PIE /ǵʰ/ regularly producing /ź/ in P.B.-Sl; d- had been apparently truncated.
    Click to expand...
    I would say that "tongue" and "lingua" are quite similar words if one swaps the "tee" for an "el"... or the other way round. That is, "longue" is similar to "lingua" but that similarity disappears when we make up a fantasy word such as "tingua".

    This example reminds me of some articles in romance languages and their counterparts in English. Spanish "el", French "le", Italian "le"... but English "the". Personally, I do not think that the "tee" sound and the "el" sound are similar at all. And yet, there must be some kind of relationship between them. It cannot be possible that English article "the" (instead of "le") came out of the blue.
     
    Rainbowlight said:
    Spanish "el", French "le", Italian "le"... but English "the".
    Click to expand...
    Looks entirely coincidental. Romance definite articles (postfixes in Romanian) all go back to Latin ille "that", which is usually traced back to the reconstructed PIE root *h₂el- "other", "beyond" (English "all" being another remote descendant). In the meantime, West Germanic definite articles go back to indirect forms of Proto-Germanic *sa, ultimately reconstructed as PIE *so "that" (with tó- being the stem in indirect cases). Russian то (to, "that", neut.nom.sg.) is another cognate.
     
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    ^^Similarly in Greek, definite articles «ο» [o̞] (masc.) < Classical «ὁ» /ho/ (masc.), feminine «η» [i] < Classical «ἡ» /hɛː/ (fem.), neuter «το» [t̠o̞] < Classical «τό» /to/ (neut.) are from PIE demonstrative this one, that one *so, *to- cf. Skt. सः /sɐh/ (masc.), सा /sɑː/ (fem.), तद् /t̪ɐd̪/ (neut.).
    So, the tongue/language is «η γλώσσα» [iˈɣlo̞s̠a] (MoGr), «ἡ γλῶσσα» /hɛːˈglɔ̂ːs.sɐ/ (AncGr).
     
    apmoy70 said:
    ^^Similarly in Greek, definite articles «ο» [o̞] (masc.) < Classical «ὁ» /ho/ (masc.), feminine «η» [i] < Classical «ἡ» /hɛː/ (fem.), neuter «το» [t̠o̞] < Classical «τό» /to/ (neut.) are from PIE demonstrative this one, that one *so, *to- cf. Skt. सः /sɐh/ (masc.), सा /sɑː/ (fem.), तद् /t̪ɐd̪/ (neut.).
    So, the tongue/language is «η γλώσσα» [iˈɣlo̞s̠a] (MoGr), «ἡ γλῶσσα» /hɛːˈglɔ̂ːs.sɐ/ (AncGr).
    Click to expand...
    Except Greek has essentically preserved *s- (though regularly turning it into *h-). The Slavic languages, much like most Germanic ones later, didn't; the Proto-Slavic masculine nom.sg. form was already *tŭ, from P.B.-Sl. *tas (hence Russian masculine тот tot, through forced reduplication after the fall of the yers, which made the resulting "t" unviable as an independent word).
     
    It's difficult to see the connection between tongue and lingua, but it's even more difficult between tear and lacrima! Confusing l's and d's is not common, but apart from lingua> dingua, we've got lacrima> dacrima and the odor/olor pair.
     
    Penyafort said:
    It's difficult to see the connection between tongue and lingua, but it's even more difficult between tear and lacrima! Confusing l's and d's is not common, but apart from lingua> dingua, we've got lacrima> dacrima and the odor/olor pair.
    Click to expand...
    When it comes to the origin of the word "tear", I tend to favour a common sense, logical approach. Of course, all others obscure connections and etymologies must be also traced and examined if we strive for an etymology that is truly comprehensive.

    However, I myself see a "tear" as a physical "tear" in the human face. The equivalent term in Spanish would be "rasgada" or "rasgado". A very simple visual metaphor: when one sheds tears, a fine line of lachrymal liquid divides or "tears" the human face in two.

    I would love to read your thoughts on this.
     
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    Rainbowlight said:
    However, I myself see a "tear" as a physical "tear" in the human face.
    Click to expand...
    Except that's just bringing up arbitrary associations, I'm afraid. In fact, already in Old English we find that these words aren't homonymous anymore (tēar, tieran vs. ter, teran). In Old High German they will be even less alike (zahar "a tear" vs. zeran "to tear", with "h" directly pointing at Proto-Indo-European /*k/).
     
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    Awwal12 said:
    Except that's just bringing up arbitrary associations, I'm afraid. In fact, already in Old English we find that these words aren't homonymous anymore (tēar, tieran vs. ter, teran). In Old High German they will be even less alike (zahar "a tear" vs. zeran "to tear", with "h" directly pointing at Proto-Indo-European /*k/).
    Click to expand...
    I definitely have different opinions on this subject! : )

    I understand the "tēar, tieran vs. ter, teran" example precisely as a crystal-clear example of similarity among terms. Granted, they are not homonyms, but I definitely perceive those terms as closely related.

    Take "Spanish "caballo" and French "cheval". The fact that homonymy is not present does not invalidate the underlying link between the words. The sequence may be wildly different, there are even vowels in one word that are absent in the other, and yet...

    Thanks again for your help and your answers.
     
    Rainbowlight said:
    I definitely have different opinions on this subject! : )

    I understand the "tēar, tieran vs. ter, teran" example precisely as a crystal-clear example of similarity among terms. Granted, they are not homonyms, but I definitely perceive those terms as closely related.

    Take "Spanish "caballo" and French "cheval". The fact that homonymy is not present does not invalidate the underlying link between the words. The sequence may be wildly different, there are even vowels in one word that are absent in the other, and yet...

    Thanks again for your help and your answers.
    Click to expand...
    Caballo and cheval are cognates, they've got a common origin. Tear 'lágrima' and tear 'rasgar' have a different origin and nowadays they coincidentally look similar, that's what Awwal means.

    Of course that doesn't mean one can't associate them in a connotative way, like you might do with Spanish ojear and hojear, even knowing their origins are also different.
     
    In Arabic there are two words for language:
    لِسان Lisaan, which means tongue, and
    لُغة Lugha, which means to talk, to chat.

    In Classical Arabic only lisaan was used to mean language, while lugha meant dialect.
     
    Here are some earlier threads:
    tongue / language
    Germanic languages: Tongue/language same word

    Swedish:
    Tunga - tongue
    Språk - language

    My answer in the first thread:
    AutumnOwl said:
    It's true that the common word for language in Swedish is språk, but there is also an older word, tungomål, which comes from the word tongue. There is also an expression, "att tala i tungor", which comes from the Bible when the first Christians became able to speak different languages, today usually used when someone is speaking in religious ecstasy, but it can also be used when someone is "speaking gibberish", or speaking confusingly.


    Finnish:
    Have the same word for both tongue and language, kieli.
    Click to expand...
    And in the second one:
    AutumnOwl said:
    In Finnish the word kieli have four meanings: tongue; language; string (musical instruments such as guitarr); reed (in woodwind instruments).

    In Swedish there is the word tungomål, which have been used both for language, and for dialect, but today it's usually only known in tungomålstalande (speaking in tongues), used in some Christian denominations, such as Pentecostal.
    Click to expand...
     
    Mahaodeh said:
    In Arabic there are two words for language:
    لِسان Lisaan, which means tongue, and
    لُغة Lugha, which means to talk, to chat.

    In Classical Arabic only lisaan was used to mean language, while lugha meant dialect.
    Click to expand...
    Thank you very much for your help.
     
    In Russian, there's also the word говор (~ speech), but it's restricted to rural dialects.
    Of course, there are also words like жаргон (slang).
     
    Rainbowlight said:
    Take "Spanish "caballo" and French "cheval". The fact that homonymy is not present does not invalidate the underlying link between the words.
    Click to expand...
    Penyafort said:
    Caballo and cheval are cognates, they've got a common origin.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, they both come from Vulgar Latin caballus, itself borrowed from Gaulish kaballos, which may be a Celtic loan from Asian (see Ancient Greek καβάλλης = old horse).

    The formal Latin equus, and Ancient Greek ἵππος (which are cognate) only remain in derived technical terms like equitation, hippodrome, etc.
     
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