# total income (or payroll) + population (or total employment)

Discussion in 'Financial Terms' started by ComicMonster, Dec 12, 2012.

1. ### ComicMonsterSenior Member

The Earth
Spanish - Spain
Hello everyone!! I am unable to find a proper translation for the following sentence, coming from a book of J. K. Galbraith:

"…the historical records are full of tables detailing the total income (or payroll) of some category
or other, together with the population (or total employment) in that category."

This payroll seems tricky to me, because it can refer to salaries given (or received), and then it would be nómina; or be about wages for a certain period, being then equivalent to "entradas de efectivo" (I guess).

The question of total employment is even worse: it should be "pleno empleo", but I don't think the sentence is about that; I don't believe either it should be replaced by "población activa", which also seems far from the mark.

This is my try, anyway: "…los registros históricos están repletos de tablas en las que se detallan los ingresos totales (o entradas de efectivo) de una u otra categoría junto con los datos relativos al conjunto de la población que integra dicha categoría (o población activa)".

I have no way to decide which translation would fit, if any of these are doing the job, which I find doubtful.

I hope you can help me with this bug…

I add a bigger piece of context just in case you would need it to make me happy…

"Shannon measured the information content of an event as a decreasing function of the probability that it would occur: the less likely an event, the more information it provides, if in fact it happens. (There is no information —no surprise— in the occurrence of an event foreseen with certainty.) Theil converted Shannon’s formula into a measure of inequality, with value zero when all parties have the average income (and thus, given the value of one income, we know with certainty all the others). The formula is simple, and closely related to the measure of entropy in thermodynamics; given any dataset meeting minimal requirements, it can be implemented on a spreadsheet within a few minutes.
This last observation is critical for economic analysis, because the historical records are full of tables detailing the total income (or payroll) of some category or other, together with the population (or total employment) in that category.

Thanks a trillion to anyone offering a clue…

CM

2. ### k-in-scSenior Member

Payroll: amount paid to workers
Total employment: total number of workers

The difference is because in assessing income inequality across various sectors, sometimes you are working with income figures (pay received by those employed) and sometimes with payroll figures (amounts paid out by employers).

3. ### ComicMonsterSenior Member

The Earth
Spanish - Spain
Yes, I see. But what I really need is a Spanish equivalence, unless you are suggesting that payroll should be nómina (because it refers to the amount paid to workers) and total employment be made equivalent to población de la muestra (because it points to the total number of workers).

Anyway, I'm still confused: if Payroll = amount paid to workers what do I have to understand? I mean a salary is an amount paid to workers (= nómina o salario), but a wage is also a salary and a payroll, isn't it?

Our dear WR says the following:

payroll
• Sense: Those receiving pay
• employees
• workers
• faculty
• staff
• employed
• working staff
DOES THAT MEAN PAYROLL MEANS EMPLOYEES, PEOPLE? IS IT NOT A PIECE OF PAPER WITH THE AMOUNT PAYED OR THE AMOUNT ITSELF?

• Sense: Wages for a period
• salary
• receipts
• payment
• pay
• income
• compensation
SO WAGE IS THE AMOUNT PAYED NOT THE PAYROLL, WHICH SHOULD BE THE LIST

It's maybe I'm too tired after 11 hours of non-stop translation, but I'm lost here… I repeat what I need is a translation to Spanish.

Thanks anyway,

CM

4. ### k-in-scSenior Member

(paid)

"Payroll" in this case means the total amount of salaries paid out by an employer, not the people on the payroll.

5. ### ComicMonsterSenior Member

The Earth
Spanish - Spain
So, it should be "el conjunto de las nóminas" (unless there is a better term), since in Spanish, "nómina" is more or less a synonym of "paycheck".

And, what's the difference between "wages" and "pay" as in the following sentence: "The evidence from structures of wages and pay runs counter to the larger picture we obtain when capital incomes are included in the observational frame."?

6. ### k-in-scSenior Member

Wages: hourly compensation
Pay: all compensation from employment
Capital income: investment income

7. ### ComicMonsterSenior Member

The Earth
Spanish - Spain
OK, thanks a lot, k-in-sc, I see the difference now.

But I have to insist; what I really need is a Spanish translation for my main concern:
[h=1]total income (or payroll) + population (or total employment) (in the mentioned context)[/h]
Perhaps we should wait and see if we can have a second opinion.

8. ### k-in-scSenior Member

That's what native speakers are for

But it's two sides of the same coin. "Population" for those receiving income, "total employment" from the payroll side.

9. ### ComicMonsterSenior Member

The Earth
Spanish - Spain
I'm afraid I have to hit the road again with this, because it's a recurrent theme.

Don't get angry with me k-in-sc if I repeat I need a Spanish translation. I know you are a native speaker, and your explanations make me understand what we are talking about, but I still can't find a financial equivalence to hese terms. In fact, being native may make it difficult to see that there are some overlaps and "glidings" when wanting to transfer a specific piece of vocabulary from one language to another.

In this sense, I don't think possible to translate "population" with "población", because in Spanish this denotes strictly (as far as I know) the people living in a particular region (a synonym of "inhabitants" if you want). There are, admittedly, some specific senses, as in "población de una muestra" (or something similar) in statistics, but then I would need this second part "de una muestra" to make it clear we are talking abaout statistics.

So, is there anyone out there daring to offer me a Spanish translation specifically adequate to those sentences: total income (or payroll) + population (or total employment). (Please remember this is a Spanish-English / Español-Inglés —> Specialized Terminology—> Financial Terms Forum).

This is the context:

And here you have some more context, should you need it:

"Our method was lift ed straight from the work of a University of Chicago econometrician, Henri Th eil, who published originally in 1972. Th eil in turn developed his ideas on the measurement of inequality from the work in information theory of the pioneer computer scientist Claude Shannon of MIT. Shannon measured the information content of an event as a decreasing function of the probability that it would occur: the less likely an event, the more information it provides, if in fact it happens. (There is no information—no surprise—in the occurrence of an event foreseen with certainty.) Theil converted Shannon’s formula into a measure of inequality, with value zero when all parties have the average income (and thus, given the value of one income, we know with certainty all the others). Th e formula is simple, and closely related to the measure of entropy in thermodynamics; given any dataset meeting minimal requirements, it can be implemented on a spreadsheet within a few minutes. This last observation is critical for economic analysis, because the historical records are full of tables detailing the total income (or payroll) of some category or other, together with the population (or total employment) in that category. This is all the information required to compute the between-groups component of a Theil statistic. Thus readily available archives available from practically any country and many multinational agencies can be mined to generate a large archive of inequality measures, each of which could be cross-checked against the others."

Hope you can help me, I'm really confused.

CM

Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
10. ### ComicMonsterSenior Member

The Earth
Spanish - Spain
I think I've got it! "Población" could be "plantilla" here?

11. ### ComicMonsterSenior Member

The Earth
Spanish - Spain
Any suggestion? Am I right? Would "universo estadístico" be also valid for "población" in this case?

12. ### k-in-scSenior Member

I think it probably is "población," but as you say, I'm not a native.

13. ### ComicMonsterSenior Member

The Earth
Spanish - Spain
Well, you ARE, actually, but not from a Spanish-speaking country. Please don't feel hurt, I really appreciate your help. It's just I need that word…

I've put, tentatively, "nóminas o entradas de efectivo" for payroll, and "universo de la muestra o plantilla" for "total employment".

Hope we would get some help from other members of WR "population", this can't be a scarce-inhabited thread, I gather…