Transliterating conjunctive vav and verb

Diadem

Senior Member
USA (English)
For example, like the word וַיֹּאמֶר.

According to the Akademya, should this be translated as:

1. vayyomer
2. vayomer
3. va'yomer

I'm trying to translate the Akademya's page about transliterating Hebrew into Latin alphabet, but I couldn't find exactly where it talked about transliterating a verb with a vav-prefixed.

Any help is appreciated.

Thank you.
 
  • elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Yeah, but when people read it today they say "vayomer," don't they? You wouldn't write "medabber," would you, just because the ב has a dagesh?
     

    yuval9

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    Yeah, but when people read it today they say "vayomer," don't they? You wouldn't write "medabber," would you, just because the ב has a dagesh?
    yes in modern hebrew we don't distinguish between doubled consonant and non-doubled ones, like you do in arabic

    and i don't know if the letters ב ג ד כ פ ת are doubled or just change their sound.
     

    ks20495

    Senior Member
    Hebrew and English
    Yeah, but when people read it today they say "vayomer," don't they? You wouldn't write "medabber," would you, just because the ב has a dagesh?

    You could write the "doubled consonant" if you wanted to represent the actual text as best as possible. But, in that case, you might write 'ו as 'w', indicate that there is an 'א, and so forth.

    If you're just transcribing how we say it today, there is no reason to double the consonant.

    and i don't know if the letters ב ג ד כ פ ת are doubled or just change their sound.

    THEORETICALLY, when בג"ד כפ"ת carry a דגש חזק, they are both doubled and change their sound. Of course, today we do not double the consonants.
     

    Ali Smith

    Senior Member
    Urdu - Pakistan
    The stress is on the middle syllable in both classical and modern Hebrew.

    וַיֹּאמֶר
     

    Abaye

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    In Biblical Hebrew the stress is on the middle syllable: vaYOmer. What about in modern Hebrew?
    We normally don't use these forms in modern Hebrew. We read them in the bible according to what we learn in school, which attempts to follow the traditional reading. In the bible, the stress depends on pausal / non-pausal position.

    ההבדל בין צורת ההפסק לצורת ההקשר יכול לבוא לידי ביטוי הן בתנועות הן במקום ההטעמה. במקרים רבים הטעמת צורות ההפסק היא מלעיל (כלומר ההברה המוטעמת היא ההברה שלפני האחרונה), למשל תִּשְׁמֹרוּ (לעומת תִּשְׁמְרוּ), הָלָכוּ (לעומת הָלְכוּ), אִשְׁתֶּךָ (לעומת אִשְׁתְּךָ). במילה אָנֹכִי ההבדל היחיד בין צורת ההפסק הוא במקום ההטעמה: צורת ההפסק מוטעמת מלעיל – אָנֹכִי – ואילו צורת ההקשר מוטעמת מלרע (כלומר בהברה האחרונה) – אָנֹכִי. אך יש מקרים שצורת ההפסק היא דווקא מלרע, כגון וַיֹּאמַר, וַיֵּלַךְ, וַיָּמֹת (לעומת וַיֹּאמֶר, וַיֵּלֶךְ, וַיָּמָת בהקשר – במלעיל).

    צורות הֶפְסֵק והֶקְשֵׁר - האקדמיה ללשון העברית
     

    Ali Smith

    Senior Member
    Urdu - Pakistan
    Abaye: If I'm not mistaken, in וַיֹּאמַר the stress moves to the end of the word, while in וַיֹּאמֶר it is on the middle syllable. Am I right?
     

    Abaye

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    Abaye: If I'm not mistaken, in וַיֹּאמַר the stress moves to the end of the word, while in וַיֹּאמֶר it is on the middle syllable. Am I right?
    This is what the text above says:
    צורת ההפסק היא מלרע, וַיֹּאמַר (the pausal form stresses the last syllable).
    וַיֹּאמֶר בהקשר – מלעיל (the connected form stresses the before-last syllable).
     
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