...tren va recorrir [recórrer]

Discussion in 'Català (Catalan)' started by papillon, May 9, 2007.

  1. papillon Senior Member

    Barcelona, Spain
    Russian (Ukraine)
    va + infinitive
    As a beginner, I am interested in the use of this form of the preterite.

    In the information I've been reading I'm told that this form is rather reserved for oral speech. Yet, trying to read a local newspaper this morning (Barcelona area) I found multiple instances of this tense.

    So my questions are: is this a perfectly acceptable verb form? Would it be used in other places, like Valencia and Balearic islands?

    Thank you for your replies!
  2. louhevly

    louhevly Senior Member

    English USA
    It's a perfectly acceptable verb form in both oral and written Catalan. Many stylists recommend that, in written Catalan, it be alternated with the simple preterite (pretèrit perfet).

    Va entrar al bar i prengué una cervesa.
  3. papillon Senior Member

    Barcelona, Spain
    Russian (Ukraine)
    Thanks, louhevly, I like your example!

    I still would like to know if this is an accepted form in other reagions, s.a. Valencia.
  4. betulina Senior Member

    al bressol del basquetbol
    català - Catalunya
    Hi, Papillon,

    It is accepted everywhere, although in some places of Valencia they don't really use it but the simple preterite. Wait for our Valencian colleagues to tell you. :)

    On the other hand, I agree with Lou, but it is also true that you can write without ever use the simple preterite (therefore, using always the perifrastic form "va + infinitive"). As he said, it's just a matter of style.
    In some dialects, though, the simple preterite is considered very formal or literary, that's why you didn't find it in newspapers. You might find it in literature, depending on the author.
  5. Mei Senior Member

    Where streets have no name...
    Catalonia Catalan & Spanish
    Hi there,

    About the thread's title... is "recorrir" correct or used in other places? I would say "recórrer".

  6. betulina Senior Member

    al bressol del basquetbol
    català - Catalunya
    Yes, me too, Mei... I would say it's not correct... I made a search and the pages I found were quite full of mistakes... Where did you take it from, Papillon?
  7. tsimbalar Member

    France - Français
    Vinculado con lo del "va + infinitivo" , una de las primeras bromas que entendí en Catalá..
    "Bacalla... i no va dir res"...
  8. papillon Senior Member

    Barcelona, Spain
    Russian (Ukraine)
    Thanks everyone for your replies.
    And yes, the title of the thread is definitely a typo on my part, shold be recórrer. My bad.

    I can't change it, but maybe one of the moderators would be so kind as to fix it.:)
  9. zazap Senior Member

    Canada, French and English
    It is used in Valencia too but, as betulina said, the preterit simple is more used in certain regions.
  10. zazap Senior Member

    Canada, French and English
    Funny, in Valencian clas they told me to "stick with one or the other" in a text.
  11. Samaruc Senior Member

    València (País Valencià)
    Valencià/Català, Castellano

    I'm from Valencia and I use both forms in normal oral speech for all persons. For me, saying "aní" and "vaig anar" (I went) is exactly the same. People here don't care about it and they combine both forms in a simple sentence. "Vaig entrar al bar i prenguí una cervesa" (or any combination "entrí/vaig entrar" and "prenguí/vaig prendre") would be a very normal sentence here.

    In normal spoken language, the "passat simple" is alive in only a few comarques (and, in some of them, not for all persons) whereas the "passat perifràstic" is alive and known everywhere (including the "passat simple" comarques)).

    By the way, some time ago I read that in the zones where the "passat simple" is still used, the "passat perifràstic" is built by using the long forms, that is, "vaig/vares/va/vàrem/vàreu/varen" instead of the short ones "vaig/vas/va/vam/vau/van". At least in the comarca of l'Horta it is true...

    As for texts, I like to combine both forms, but, as zapzap said, some people prefer, once you've chosen one of them, to maintain it in the whole text. I think this is a stylistic question, so, I'm affraid the agreement is impossible (and that's good).

    If you use the "passat perifràstic" you'll be understood everywhere, this is a completely acceptable form in both spoken and written language. If you use the "passat simple" in written language, it will be also perfectly acceptable, however, if you use it in spoken language, it will sound strange, probably old fashioned, in many comarques (especially for the first singular person).
  12. Sancho Panza

    Sancho Panza Senior Member

    Spain - Spanish and Catalan
    I agree 100% with Samaruc.
    Being from Barcelona, I tend to combine the two forms, and it's funny, because instead of hearing in class to stick to one or the other, I've always been encouraged to combine them...

    Funny thing :)

    Salutacions per a tothom!

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