Tunisian Arabic: باش نسافروا غدوة

  • Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    It depends on the context. It may mean "ل" but in Tunisia if I'm not wrong, this is also the mark of the future so it may also mean "we will travel tomorrow".
     

    Amirali1383koohi

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Thank you Hemza and Fenakhay!
    It depends on the context. It may mean "ل" but in Tunisia if I'm not wrong, this is also the mark of the future so it may also mean "we will travel tomorrow".
    Does this word mean both (لـِ) and meaning (سَـ / سوف)?
    In my opinion (سَـ / سوف) is more common, what do you think?
    Can you tell me an example of the meaning of (لـ) and (سوف) in Tunisia Arabic ?
    Does this word have the same meaning in (Morocco) and (Algeria) and (Tunisia)?
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    Thank you Hemza and Fenakhay!
    You're welcome :). باش is actually the contraction of ب+أي+شي (or ب+اش). I think it also exists in Iraq.
    Does this word mean both (لـِ) and meaning (سَـ / سوف)?
    In my opinion (سَـ / سوف) is more common, what do you think?
    س/سوف are in standard Arabic. Dialects have other ways to express the future, look at this:

    All dialects: Future markers غاد ، باش ، ح ، راح

    And don't pay attention to my posts, I was ignorant at this time :D.

    Does this word have the same meaning in (Morocco) and (Algeria) and (Tunisia)?
    Amongst Maghrebi dialects (Mauritanian, Moroccan, Algerian Tunisian and Libyan) Tunisian is the only one which makes use of باش as a marker to express future while it also means "for, in order to" (which is the meaning in other Maghrebi dialects). I said "as a marker" because actually, even in other dialects it may express the idea that the action will take place in the future although it is not used directly as a future marker as in Tunisian.

    Can you tell me an example of the meaning of (لـ) and (سوف) in Tunisian Arabic ?
    باش نرقد (I'm going to sleep). Here the future ( سوف ) meaning involved.
    نمشي عند الطبيب باش يكتب لي على أدوية (I go to the doctor so that he prescribes me medication). Here, it is the ل meaning which is implied.

    (Ps: @djara or @tounsi51 could you please correct my sentences if they sound wrong? Thank you).
     

    Amirali1383koohi

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Wow ... what a perfect and useful explanation !!
    Thanks a lot !
    You said that the word (باش) is used in Iraq too, does it mean لـ in Iraq?

    I said "as a marker" because actually, even in other dialects it may express the idea that the action will take place in the future although it is not used directly as a future marker as in Tunisian.
    Could you give me an example of using this word in other dialects?
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    Wow ... what a perfect and useful explanation !!
    Thanks a lot !
    You said that the word (باش) is used in Iraq too, does it mean لـ in Iraq?
    I can't remember its meaning since I heard it a whiiiile ago (from Iraqi classmates). I just remember it having a slight different meaning than the Maghrebi use of the word.
    Could you give me an example of using this word in other dialects?
    I meant other Maghrebi dialects (for instance, Egyptian don't make use of باش to my knowledge).
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    Could you give me an example of using this word in other dialects?
    Sorry I should have asked you first: if you're looking for an example in other Maghrebi dialects (excluding Tunisian) to know what باش means, then the second example given in my reply (post #5) is perfectly valid since it implies the ل meaning. But if you were looking for an example in other dialects, then to my knowledge, only Iraqi makes use of it except the Maghreb and thus, probably some Najdi/Gulf dialects (but you may ask Iraqis or Saudi speakers who know much better than me).
     

    Amirali1383koohi

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Hi again Hemza !
    I asked an Iraqi speaker about the meaning (باش) in the Iraqi dialect.
    He said the word is not used in Iraq. But some Iraqi youths use the word (باشا) means (سید).
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    باشا (bâsha) is something else, it liks the Turkish paşa while the word باش is said bâsh/bêsh.

    Either it is not used in his area or I mispelled it... Ok, then try again by asking him if بيش is used. This may be the Iraqi way of writing/spelling the Maghrebi باش
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    Any Iraqi input? @Mahaodeh ? I'm sure I heard an Iraqi using this word.

    Ps: if any moderator considers this off topic, can we either change the title or move the last messages which do not concern Tunisian? Thank you.
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    I'm afraid that it's not used in Iraq in the context of this thread, at least I've never heard it used that way. As mentioned above, it's a Turkish loan 'prefix' used to mean 'head of' as in باشمهندس. It has fallen out of use since the 1960s after the fall of Kingdom and the rise of the Republic, today they just say رئيس مهندسين and words like باشمهندس sound rather Egyptian to most Iraqis living today. Even the words باشا وبيك that were used as titles during the Ottoman Empire are today not used except sarcastically.
    then try again by asking him if بيش is used.
    This one is used, but it is also not related. It means بكم or كم (depending on context) and it's a contraction of بأي شيء.
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    I'm afraid that it's not used in Iraq in the context of this thread
    I didn't mean it was used the same way as said in this thread
    This one is used, but it is also not related. It means بكم or كم (depending on context) and it's a contraction of بأي شيء.
    Ok then I was right. Although the use differs a bit, both words (باش/بيش it's just a matter of pronunciation) are the same and come from the same contraction. In the Maghreb, it does bear the meaning of "with something" (بـأي شيء) then one can imagine a link with "in order to". I remember hearing an Iraqi saying بيش (although the context escaped me) hence I said it was used there, poiting at this contraction. I wanted to say to @Amirali1383koohi that the contraction exists somewhere else (although again, the meaning differs).

    In many Moroccan and Algerian dialects (not all), you find بشحال (ب أي شيء حال) which means بكم.
     
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