Not exactly, but very similar. The Ukrainian и is something between the R. и and ы - try saying an ы but with your lips stretched as if it was an и!
Well, while we're on the subject, how exactly would you compare the pronunciation of Polish "y" to Ukrainian "и" and Russian "ы"?
I guess it santds for Russian.I don't understand the meaning of this symbol R in this case. Please explain.
I also thought Russian мы and Polish my sound (almost if not completely) identical, I never discern any difference (this is a practical observation not based upon scholastic phonetic comparison).Polish "y", Ukrainian "и", Belarusian and Russian "ы" sound about 90-95% the same to my ear. These sound doesn't exist in Chezh, Slovak and South Slavic languages, IMHO.
It's called "close central unrounded vowel".
The IPA symbol for this sound is "ɨ".
I advise to pronounce it like Russian мы, Polish my - East or West. The regional difference is hardly noticeable and there's no special symbol or description for it, IMHO. A foreign non-Alavic learner shouldn't worry anyway. Some people have difficulty achieving 100% accuracy on this sound.
Maybe we need a Polish or west Ukrainian speaker to record us their pronunciation of my/ми and then compare it with the Russian sounds.
The second sound corresponds to the one in question.Polish: wy [vɨ] "you (plural)"
Russian: вы [vɨ] "you" (plural)
Edit: Am I the only one who sees only squares instead of phonetic symbol of y/ы?
I advise to pronounce it like Russian мы, Polish my - East or West. The regional difference is hardly noticeable
... but I can confirm that the Ukrainian и is the same as the Russian ы by sound.
In Russian we say Румыния, which sounds exactly like Romanian "România"I also can only see the squares.
And I see that linked article says that Romanian î is the same sound, so now I will post a separate question on the "Other Languages" forum to inquire how close Romanian î is to Russian ы.
Thanks for clarifying, Papillon.Now I must make a disclaimer that Anatoli, Crescent and myself are from exactly the same city in the mainly Russian-speaking portion of Ukraine. Indeed, when we learn Ukrainian in school or at home, we're simply told, as Crescent said, that Ukrainian и is the same as the Russian ы. Indeed, everyone in this area will pronounce it exactly like that.
The problem is, if we happen to travel to certain portions of Western Ukraine, this pronunciation is what gives us away as non-locals. Particular areas that come to mind are Lviv, Ternopil and Ivano-Frankovsk. Not softening our ы sound is one of the telltale signs of somebody from the East. I couldn't find too much information on this topic (other than personal experience), but here is the Wiki article on Ukrainian (in Russian ). If you go to the Графика и фонетика section and then scroll down to "буква и" you will see:
буква и произносится близко к русскому |ы| или средне между |и| и |ы|
Now, I agree that the difference is not so great, but it is noticeable and real. I agree with Anatoli that the official pronunciation may be pretty close to the Russian sound, although this may change given the current trends...
...If I were to define the Polish - West Ukrainian pronunciation, I would say that "буква и произносится близко к русскому |ы| или средне между |и| и |ы|" is exaggerated ...
The IPA symbol for this sound is "ɨ".
OK, I would have fixed it but most people do not have a problem, so it must be weird settings on your computer. Please click on View in your browser and try to select another encoding.In Reply #5, this line:
I see a square in quotation marks, instead of the IPA symbol.
Strange. On the same site there's a link to a Ukrainian page with symbol ɨ for и. Maybe some linguists think the Ukrainian и (дим) is like English i (pin). At least, the West Ukrainian.
Well, the symbol for the Ukrainian и is [ɪ].
I don't know if it's different in regional versions of the language, but the ɨ sound would complicate the prounciation considering how often it appears.
Please click on View in your browser and try to select another encoding.
I tested a couple of encodings in IE and all worked. Try Unicode, for example.Can someone suggest an encoding that might work? I have tried many and none of them allow me to view the IPA symbols here. On the other hand, I see them with no trouble on the original Wikipedia pages.
This is strange. It doesn't work on my computer even when I change the encoding into Unicode UTF-8. None of the phonetic symbols are displayed even though I can see them on the source sites.When I open http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_central_unrounded_vowel and check encoding it's Unicode UTF-8. If you're using Windows XP, then support for this encoding should be there already. You might be simply missing the font on your PC.
I wonder if Beobachter solved the problem?