Ukrainian: чавити

Lorenc

Senior Member
Italian
I'd be interested in knowing cognate words in Russian or Polish of the Ukrainian verb чавити (‎čavỳty) 'to squeeze'.
 
  • oveka

    Senior Member
    Ukraine, Ukrainian
    Cognate words in Russian of the Ukrainian verb чавити:
    Чавити
    (душити) сік з винограду = Давить сок с винограда
    Балка зчавила руку = Балка сжала руку
    Чавити ягоду на кисіль= Мять ягоды для киселя
    Розчавив кістку = Кость размозжил
    Ask about it?
     

    Lorenc

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Cognate words in Russian of the Ukrainian verb чавити: [...]
    Mmm, as far as I can tell none of the mentioned Russian verbs are etymologically related to Ukrainian чавити (NB cognate words are not translations, they are etymologically related words, possibly having a different meaning). Perhaps, just perhaps, давить is related but 1) it is not mentioned in the sources I consulted (e.g. викисловарь) and 2) the shift д->ч seems difficult to explain.
     
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    swintok

    Senior Member
    English - Canada
    Мельничук indicates the following in the Етимологічний словник української мови:


    Специфічно українське утворення, що виникло з щавити (шчавити), можливо через форму розщавити (рожчавити) внаслідок перерозкладу.

    Щавити – рос. [щавить], слоц. štavit’ sa, бол. щавя, мак. штави, схв. штавити – псл. [*sъčaviti]; -- похідне від *sъčava (<*sъkěva, *sъkjava) «сік»; отже, первісне значення слова «робити (з чогось) сік.​
     

    Lorenc

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Thanks a lot! That's very useful. I'll translate into English your post for the benefit of the forum:

    Uniquely Ukrainian formation, which arose from 'щавити (шчавити)', possibily through the form 'розщавити (рожчавити)' as a result of translocation.
    Щавити (Russian щавить), Slovakian štavit’ sa, Bulgarian щавя, Macedonian штави, Serbo-Croatian штавити – Proto-Slavic [*sъčaviti]; -- derived from *sъčava (<*sъkěva, *sъkjava) «juice»; consequently, the original meaning of the word was «to obtain (from something) juice».

    This is very useful. BTW, as far as I can tell Slovakian 'štavit’ sa' means 'to bet, to gamble' (similar to Polish stawiać), so it doesn't look related to 'squeeze' to me; Google translate for the Bulgarian and Serbo-Croatian words given above gives as translation 'curry, tan, bark' but I don't know what that actually means. Also, none of the Russian dictionaries I consulted has an entry for 'щавить'.

    In any case, what matters is the Proto-Slavic root; according to the Polish etymological dictionary by Boryś the Proto-Slavic root *sъcati 'to produce a liquid' is at the origin of, e.g., Polish szczaw and Russian/Ukrainian щавель 'sorrel' (a juice-rich plant, presumably -- I'm not a fan) and Polish (vulg.) szczać 'to urinate' ('frequentative' form sikać), Russian сцать/ссать, Ukrainian сця́ти and similar verbs in other Slavic languages.

    So Ukrainian чавити is actually cognate with Polish szczać and Russian ссать, both deriving from an original meaning 'to produce a liquid from something'. That's a turn up for the book! :)
     

    bibax

    Senior Member
    Czech (Prague)
    чавити ... виникло з щавити, можливо через форму розщавити (рожчавити) внаслідок перерозкладу = ... as a result of [wrong] decomposition;
    BTW, as far as I can tell Slovakian 'štavit’ sa' means 'to bet, to gamble' (similar to Polish stawiać), so it doesn't look related to 'squeeze' to me; ...
    You have to distinguish šťaviť sa and staviť sa (= to bet, stávka = bet).

    The verb šťaviť (Slovak) / šťaviti (Czech) is derived from the noun šťava/šťáva < *sъčava < *sъkěva/sъkjava, related to sok (= juice). It mostly means to worry, to bother sb (or reflexive šťaviť sa = to bother oneself). However in Czech it has several other colloquial or slang meanings.

    Když jsem si koupila odšťavovač, začala jsem šťavit ve velkém. = When I bought a juice extractor, I began to squeeze [fruit] on a large scale.
    Vyšťavil jsem se. = I have exhausted myself. I have burned myself out.
     
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    Lorenc

    Senior Member
    Italian
    чавити ... можливо через форму розщавити (рожчавити) внаслідок перерозкладу = ... as a result of [wrong] decomposition.

    To be honest this passage was a little unclear to me (I also don't know the exact translation of the word 'перерозклад'); I think it means that from щавити the derived verb розщавити was formed, perhaps it eventually supplanted щавити and then the 'щ' sound was erroneously interpreted as being made up by the cluster 'сч' (i.e., the verb was interpreted as росчавити), from which a new verb чавити was re-extracted as the root verb.

    The verb šťaviť (Slovak) / šťaviti (Czech) is derived from the noun šťava/šťáva < *sъčava < *sъkěva/sъkjava, related to sok (= juice). It mostly means to worry, to bother sb (or reflexive šťaviť sa = to bother oneself). However in Czech it has several other colloquial or slang meanings.
    Když jsem si koupila odšťavovač, začala jsem šťavit ve velkém. = When I bought a juice extractor, I began to squeeze [fruit] on a large scale.

    So is it correct that one of the meanings of šťaviť (Slovak) / šťaviti (Czech) is 'to squeeze (juice out of something)', as your example indicates?
     
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