Un Loco / or weirdo?

Magmod

Banned
England English
Hola ...
Yo intentaba traducir unas líneas de un poema como así:
“ Yo soy un Loco que tiene por patria una colina
donde a veces el río el limonero , las flores y la tierra
piensan en voz alta conmigo y me consuelan de preguntas
con muy difícil respuesta...
Las respuestas no están en el viento....”


I’m a Fool whose Fatherland is a Hill
Where sometimes the river, the lemon tree , the flowers and the earth
think loudly with me
and cosole me from questions

with a very difficult answer...
The answers are not in the wind ...:confused:

:arrow: Por favor corrige mis equivocaciones

Saludos
:)

 
  • Laia

    Senior Member
    Catalan, Spanish
    Magmod said:
    “ Soy un loco que tiene por patria una colina
    donde a veces el río, el limonero , las flores y la tierra
    piensan en voz alta conmigo y me consuelan de preguntas
    de muy difícil respuesta...
    Las respuestas no están en el viento....”
    A mi me gusta. :)
    Sólo eliminaría el "Yo" de la primera línea, y cambiaría el "con" de la cuarta línea por un "de". Y pondría "loco" en minúsculas.
    Aun así, mejor espera otras opiniones.
     

    GiggLiden

    Senior Member
    US
    Magmod said:
    Hola ...
    Yo intentaba traducir unas líneas de un poema como así:
    “ Yo soy un Loco que tiene por patria una colina
    donde a veces el río el limonero , las flores y la tierra
    piensan en voz alta conmigo y me consuelan de preguntas
    con muy difícil respuesta...
    Las respuestas no están en el viento....”


    I’m a Fool whose Fatherland is a Hill [why the capitals here?)
    Where sometimes the river, the lemon tree , the flowers and the earth
    think loudly with me and console me from
    [after; "from" doesn't work here] questions

    with [that have; otherwise it's ambiguous] a very difficult answer...
    The answers are not in the wind ...:confused:

    :arrow: Por favor corrige mis equivocaciones

    Saludos
    :)
    /quote]


    lovely poem. Did YOU write it?

    in case the corrections above are too hard to follow:
    and console me after questions that have a very difficult answer...
     

    Magmod

    Banned
    England English
    Thanks to Leia and Giggliden for your kind replies. :thumbsup:
    If only I could write such Spanish poems. Unfortunately I don't have a deep understanding of Spanish and that's why I couldn't convey its English meaning.
    The poem was taken from:
    http://ellocodelacolina.com/

    :arrow: I wonder if you could translate the 5 lines of the poem to convey its meaning?
    Saludos
    :)
     

    GiggLiden

    Senior Member
    US
    Magmod said:
    ....... Unfortunately I don't have a deep understanding of Spanish and that's why I couldn't convey its English meaning.
    The poem was taken from:
    http://ellocodelacolina.com/

    :arrow: I wonder if you could translate the 5 lines of the poem to convey its meaning?
    Saludos
    :)
    To try and "translate" it into every English is almost a sacrilege. I found the poem to be very moving ... it's a mood piece, and you kind of have to just absorb it and let it simmer in your in the back of your mind.

    It wouldn't do to "translate" Shakespeare either. Try it ...

    "Whether to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them."

    How's it going?
    (grinnnnnnn)
    :) :)

    stalego !
     

    Gizmo77

    Senior Member
    Spain - Spanish
    Well... it's just finding the right words... the right rhythm...... the right entonation.... it's not translating... it's adapting :).
     

    Magmod

    Banned
    England English
    GiggLiden said:
    To try and "translate" it into every English is almost a sacrilege. I found the poem to be very moving ... it's a mood piece, and you kind of have to just absorb it and let it simmer in your in the back of your mind.

    It wouldn't do to "translate" Shakespeare either. Try it ...

    "Whether to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them."

    How's it going?
    (grinnnnnnn)
    :) :)

    stalego !

    Hi GiggLiden
    :idea: But Shakespeare is translated to every common language. I would be surprised if not the whole work of Shakespeare is not translated into Spanish. It is usually easier to absorb the translation of Shakespeare in a foreign language than English.
    :arrow: I was trying to understand the last 3 lines of the poem which summarises its intention. My Spanish is not that advanced.
    Saludos
    :)
     

    Laia

    Senior Member
    Catalan, Spanish
    Magmod said:
    Thanks to Leia and Giggliden for your kind replies. :thumbsup:
    :)
    Well... as you call me Leia... "May the Force be with you" :D ;)

    Magmod said:
    My Spanish is not that advanced.
    I think your Spanish is very good!
     

    Magmod

    Banned
    England English
    Laia said:
    Well... as you call me Leia... "May the Force be with you" :D ;)
    Hi Laia
    Sorry to have misspelt such a nice name :eek:
    Spanish is a fascinating language and I appreciate your compliment.
    Besos y abrazos
    :)
    May the Force be with me
     

    ctos

    Senior Member
    USA
    I'm a fool whose country is a hill
    Where at times the river, the lemon tree, the flowers and the earth
    Think out loud with me and console me
    As I ponder questions
    Having such difficult answers...
    The answers are not in the wind...

    ==

    El poema trata las cuestiones pesadas de la vida, así que para resolver algunas dificultades en la traducción me referí a ellas, por ejemplo "such".

    Efectivamente en inglés no decimos "console from" alguna cosa, así que introduje un verbo pertinente, "ponder," para que siga la línea del pensamiento. Otro camino es decir "shelter" o 'da cobija' o usar 'abrigo' de alguna manera, pero siento que el autor no busque ser protegido de las cuestiones difíciles. Cuando escribe que las respuestas no están en el viento a lo mejor indique que hasta cierto punto busca abrigo que le proporcionan el árbol, los ruidos, etc., ya que las respuestas no están por llegar. "...and shelter me / from questions having such difficult answers... / The answers are not in the wind..." Así se preserva la ausencia de un verbo, es decir hablamos sólo "de preguntas".... Sin embargo no se da la impresión de que el poeta busque refugio, ya que pasa todo el poema hasta aquel punto indagando en cuestiones difíciles.

    Me parece posible decir "from questions having no answers" porque la idea de que son de "muy difícil respuesta" indica que las cuestiones (o preguntas específicas si se quiere) realmente no se pueden contestar... Pero en la línea siguiente dice eso mismo, así que precisar en la quinta línea que no tienen respuestas pondría en peligro la sexta.
     

    GiggLiden

    Senior Member
    US
    Magmod said:
    Hi GiggLiden
    :idea: But Shakespeare is translated into every common language. I would be surprised if not the whole work of Shakespeare is not had not been translated into Spanish. It is usually easier to absorb the translation of Shakespeare into a foreign language than English (redundant).

    :arrow: I was trying to understand the last 3 lines of the poem which summarises its intention. My Spanish is not that advanced.
    Saludos
    :)
    You kind of have to let the poem play with your mind, keep it loose, and let the ruminations lead to enlightenment. Like any other problem, even the most difficult ones, sometimes the answer becomes brilliantly clear at the most unexpected moments ... the "aha moments."

    talego, amigo
    :)
     

    Magmod

    Banned
    England English
    Hi GiggLiden
    My
    But Shakespeare is translated to every common language. I would be surprised if not the whole work of Shakespeare is not translated into Spanish. It is usually easier to absorb the translation of Shakespeare in a foreign language than English.

    :arrow: I was trying to understand the last 3 lines of the poem which summarises its intention.
    Your
    But Shakespeare is translated into every common language. I would be surprised if not the whole work of Shakespeare is not had not been translated into Spanish. It is usually easier to absorb the translation of Shakespeare into a foreign language than English (redundant).

    :arrow: I was trying to understand the last 3 lines of the poem which summarises its intention
    I like your comments :thumbsup: but disagree with your corrections :
    :arrow: (1) According to the Oxford Dictionary one can translate to or into another language and that’s what I have done – I used both to every language and into Spanish - see above. Further, according to the Oxford Dictionary with absorb use in only, as for example take in knowledge.
    :arrow: (2) How can I write easier without writing than what? Also English is not redundant (a) it is needed to answer easier than what, and (b) it is used for emphasis, i.e. Shakespeare wrote in English. The style of would had had been etc. is not popular nowadays even though grammatically is correct. English is less rigid than Spanish.
    Similarly for the negative " not the whole" I have used is also used for emphasis. Although your style is correct, it lacks the emphasis, which I was trying to convey.
    :arrow: (3) "The last 3 lines" is used as a single entity and therefore I used it in the singular. For example crew is a body of persons manning a ship but it (not they) is more commonly used in the singular, even though it refers to persons. Although the plural is also grammatically correct.
    :idea: If you'd like to use the last 3 lines as a plural noun then you need to change its to their intention.
    Saludos
    :)

    I appreciate it more if you'd correct my Spanish - then I'll agree with you unreservedly.
     

    Magmod

    Banned
    England English
    ctos said:
    As I ponder questions
    Having such difficult answers...
    Hola ctos
    Muchísima gracias por tus repuesta y corrección. :thumbsup:
    Tu repuesta es tan excelente y clarísima con explicaciones, das en el clavo con la traducción así:
    "As I ponder questions
    Having such difficult answers..."

    :arrow: Desgraciadamente la repuesta, post # 3 de mi amigo GiggLiden es también correcta y más o menos similar a tuya, pero no podría entenderla antes a causa del estilo de la repuesta con parénteses entrevesados ;)
    Saludos
    :)
     

    GiggLiden

    Senior Member
    US
    Magmod said:
    Hi GiggLiden
    My
    Your

    I like your comments but disagree with your corrections :
    (1) According to the Oxford Dictionary one can translate to or into another language and that’s what I have done – I used both to every language and into Spanish - see above. Further, according to the Oxford Dictionary with absorb use in only, as for example take in knowledge.
    (2) How can I write easier without writing than what? Also English is not redundant (a) it is needed to answer easier than what, and (b) it is used for emphasis, i.e. Shakespeare wrote in English. The style of would had had been etc. is not popular nowadays even though grammatically is correct. English is less rigid than Spanish.
    Similarly for the negative " not the whole" I have used is also used for emphasis. Although your style is correct, it lacks the emphasis, which I was trying to convey.
    (3) "The last 3 lines" is used as a single entity and therefore I used it in the singular. For example crew is a body of persons manning a ship but it (not they) is more commonly used in the singular, even though it refers to persons.Although the plural is also grammatically correct.
    If you'd like to use the last 3 lines as a plural noun then you need to change its to their intention.
    Saludos
    :)

    I appreciate it more if you'd correct my Spanish - then I'll agree with you unreservedly.
    Howdy, Magmod

    I've read your commentary several times, to be sure I understood them properly, but e'en so, am still having problems with some of them. Specifically ...

    (1) "Further, according to the Oxford Dictionary with absorb use in only, as for example take in knowledge."

    Alas, quoting the Oxford Dictionary may not be such a good idea; has it never heard of ... "a sponge absorbs water? water absorbs oxygen? Plants absorb sunshine and create chlorophyl? The human mind absorbs new information every day?" Would you insist on adding "in" to any of these statements? (The "in" is part of "take in", i.e. a substitution for "absorb." "In" is not meant to be used WITH ... absorb.)

    (2) How can I write easier without writing than what? Also English is not redundant (a) it is needed to answer easier than what, and (b) it is used for emphasis, i.e. Shakespeare wrote in English.

    "It is usually easier to absorb the translation of Shakespeare in a foreign language" was the version I suggested. Is there anyone on God's green earth who knows about Shakespeare, but is unsure as to the original language he wrote in??? Are there really dodos in this room for whom we have to explain and EMPHASIZE that Shakespeare originals were written in English? How insulting do we really want to BE? :) :)

    (3) "The last 3 lines" is used as a single entity and therefore I used it in the singular. For example crew is a body of persons manning a ship but it (not they) is more commonly used in the singular, even though it refers to persons.

    Agreed: crew is a collective noun, to describe a plurality of persons, but used grammatically as a single entity. So are team, the Congress of the USA, the Parliament of the UK, the medical staff of your local hospital, a herd of buffalo, a pride of lions, a gaggle of geese ........... with all of these, use ... IS. But we are not allowed to pick any random group of things we please ... books, coins, lines of type .. and arbitrarily anoint them as collective nouns, just so we can say "they is" ... that just won't wash.
    ------------------

    As for your offer, "I appreciate it more if you'd correct my Spanish (sic) - then I'll agree with you unreservedly," you might want to change your mind. :) :) My Spanish is not much better than my Chinese; I wouldn't dare to correct a Spanish speaker unless he misspells "asta" without the "h." But I will refrain from offering suggestion as to your English style in future. I think we've bored this patient audience enough. Don't you agree? :)


    It's been fun parrying with you, Magmod. Now ... let's go and have some breakfast.

    Ciao for niao

    [gig]
     

    Magmod

    Banned
    England English
    GiggLiden said:
    Alas, quoting the Oxford Dictionary may not be such a good idea

    "It is usually easier to absorb the translation of Shakespeare in a foreign language" was the version I suggested.

    But we are not allowed to pick any random group of things and arbitrarily anoint them as collective nouns, just so we can say "they is" ... that just won't wash.
    Hi gig
    Your comments and explanations are useful and interesting. I mostly agree with your comments about absorb and collective nouns. :thumbsup:

    (1) I have misquoted the Oxford Dictionary about absorb+ in. However it does give: absorb knowledge = take in knowledge.
    Anyway I still fail to find anything wrong with:
    It is usually easier to absorb (= take in) the translation of Shakespeare in a foreign language than English.
    Easier is for comparison. Otherwise one writes:
    :idea: It is usually easy to absorb the translation of Shakespeare.

    (2) You also used the last 3 lines as a collective noun because you used its instead of their when referring to them? :D

    (3) I didn’t know until 3 years ago who Cervantes was. Probably most readers on this forum don't know Goethe's language. Most people don’t know that the original language of the Bible is Aramaic.So why are you surprised that some people don’t know that Shakespeare wrote in English? :confused:

    Saludos
    :)
    No soy un completo inútil. Por lo menos sirvo de mal ejemplo :tick:
     

    GiggLiden

    Senior Member
    US
    Magmod said:
    Hi gig
    Your comments and explanations are useful and interesting. I mostly agree with your comments about absorb and collective nouns. <A>

    (2) You also used the last 3 lines as a collective noun because you used its instead of their when referring to them? :D <B>

    (3) I didn’t know until 3 years ago who Cervantes was. Probably most readers on this forum don't know Goethe's language. Most people don’t know that the original language of the Bible is Aramaic. <D>So why are you surprised that some people don’t know that Shakespeare wrote in English? <C>

    Saludos

    No soy un completo inútil. Por lo menos sirvo de mal ejemplo :tick:
    ==============================
    <A> I am mostly glad to hear that. :)

    <B> Let us take a quick look at your original version of this bone of contention, to wit ...
    "I wonder if you could translate the 5 lines of the poem to convey its meaning?" (sic)

    I quote your totally error-free sentence verbatim. The possessive its is singular because it refers to the subject of the sentence (poem), immediately preceding (NOT to "the 5 (or 3) lines.)" And because "poem" IS singular, I kept the correct "its" in place.

    <C> I said NO such thing.

    <D> Muy impresionante, tu conocimiento de todos esos idiomas! :) Lleveme a un restaurante arameco, y voy a leer a ti el "Götz von Berlichingen," escrito por Johann von Goethe.

    Despues, voy a permitirte pagar para el almuerzo, porque me causaste trabajar con tan mucho esfuerzo !

    PS:
    Y dos cervezas.
    :) :) :)

    Salud
    [gig]
     

    mikesebooks

    New Member
    English
    The first things I thought of were the Beatles and Bob Dylan: The beatles for The fool on the hill (As seen lyrics depot .com /the-beatles/the-fool-on-the-hill.html) and Bob Dylan for Blowin' in the Wind (The answers, my friend, are blowin' in the wind...)

    If I could translate those, then I would actually be getting somewhere.
     
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