une chipie

[williamtmiller]

Bonjour,

Est-ce que quelqu'un voit un bon mot en anglais pour une chipie? WordReference donne "cow" qui pour moi ne convient pas du tout. Autres idées? Merci!

 

[fetchezlavache]

brat ?

 

[Gil]

Is "vixen" the right size?

 

[Jean-Michel Carrère]

How about 'shrew' ?

 

[Benjy]

ben, selon le petit robert chipie veut dire soit une femme dificile à vire ou bien une petite fille qui aime bien agacer tout le monde.. donc le mot approprié ca dépend du context... pour ma part je croyais que chipie designait toujour cette petite fille agacante. donc j'aurais dit brat moi aussi

 

[semiller]

I would agree with Benji. Here in the U. S. we'd say brat as well. I teach school, and I hate to admit, but there are too many little brats here and there.

 

[fetchezlavache]

How about 'shrew' ?

i don't think so. shrew doesn't convey the mischievious aspect of 'chipie'. shrew is more of a mégère than a chipie

 

[Gil]

i don't think so. shrew doesn't convey the mischievious aspect of 'chipie'. shrew is more of a mégère than a chipie

D'accord.
But could WILLIAMTMILLER tell us how old is his "chipie". Is she a cute little brat or an old whitch?

 

[Jabote]

D'accord.
But could WILLIAMTMILLER tell us how old his "chipie" is. Is she a cute little brat or an old witch?

Tu as les mains pleines de pouces aujourd'hui Gil, ou quoi ???

 

[zinc]

Actually, I think "vixen" may be the closest we have in English to "chipie", in the UK at least. It can be used for a girl ("that little vixen") or a woman ("that scheming vixen"). It conveys cunning, untrustworthiness and disrespect for others. It's not a very common expression in everyday life, unlike "cow" or the even less complimentary "slapper" but could be used effectively in the second person, if that was the original intent.

 

[Jabote]

Actually, I think "vixen" may be the closest we have in English to "chipie", in the UK at least. It can be used for a girl ("that little vixen") or a woman ("that scheming vixen"). It conveys cunning, untrustworthiness and disrespect for others. It's not a very common expression in everyday life, unlike "cow" or the even less complimentary "slapper" but could be used effectively in the second person, if that was the original intent.

I agree on everything you said about vixen, zinc. But chipie when talking about a little girl is not REALLY pejorative, it conveys a notion of cuteness, teasing and mischievousness which is not at all present in "vixen". Hence I think the best translation is brat.

 

[Cath.S.]

I agree on everything you said about vixen, zinc. But chipie when talking about a little girl is not REALLY pejorative, it conveys a notion of cuteness, teasing and mischievousness which is not at all present in "vixen". Hence I think the best translation is brat.

Tout à fait d'accord, chère Jabote. Traduisons des mots, lorsqu'ils sont essentiels à l'idée, comme aurait pu dire un autre de mes vieux profs.

 

[Gil]

I agree on everything you said about vixen, zinc. But chipie when talking about a little girl is not REALLY pejorative, it conveys a notion of cuteness, teasing and mischievousness which is not at all present in "vixen". Hence I think the best translation is brat.

Anyway, "vixen" has such an interesting story that it should be used:

Vixen, finally, represents the southern pronunciation of a word that goes back to Old English fyxe, the feminine of fox. It was formed by a change in the root vowel of fox and the addition of a suffix -e or -en. Besides being one of the rare southern English dialect forms to have come into standard English, vixen is also the only survival of this type of feminine noun in the modern language.

 

[Douglas]

Bonjour,

Est-ce que quelqu'un voit un bon mot en anglais pour une chipie? WordReference donne "cow" qui pour moi ne convient pas du tout. Autres idées? Merci!

I just looked it up on the online dictionary. A synonyme for chipie is "mégère for which the dictionary gives: battle-axe and spitfire. I presume cow might be the literal meaning.

By the way this site is educative. It makes u think, and if u don't you're reminded!!

 

[Gil]

Tout à fait d'accord, chère Jabote. Traduisons des mots, lorsqu'ils sont essentiels à l'idée, comme aurait pu dire un autre de mes vieux profs.

Tout à fait en désaccord. Chez nous, pour paraphraser Mme de Beauvoir, les petites filles ne naissent pas chipies. Elles le deviennent et doivent y mettre l'effort.
Il pourra m'arriver que je traite mes petites filles affectueusement de "chipies" mais ce sera en sachant que la définition qu'en donne le Petit Larousse ne vise pas les petites filles.

 

[Nico5992]

I just looked it up on the online dictionary. A synonyme for chipie is "mégère for which the dictionary gives: battle-axe and spitfire. I presume cow might be the literal meaning.

By the way this site is educative. It makes u think, and if u don't you're reminded!!

To me, "mégère" isn't a synonym for "chipie" since "chipie" generally refers to a little girl while "mégère" is rather used for old women.

 

[Jabote]

Tout à fait en désaccord. Chez nous, pour paraphraser Mme de Beauvoir, les petites filles ne naissent pas chipies. Elles le deviennent et doivent y mettre l'effort.
Il pourra m'arriver que je traite mes petites filles affectueusement de "chipies" mais ce sera en sachant que la définition qu'en donne le Petit Larousse ne vise pas les petites filles.

C'est exactement ce que je voulais dire, merci Gil !

 

[Jabote]

Une petite fille chipie est une petite fille espiègle et taquine et qui te fait enrager. Chipie pour une petite fille est synonyme de coquine (dans le bons sens du terme s'entend...).

Une mégère est une femme méchante, vipère, agressive et hargneuse, en un mot haïssable... et de plus de préférence grosse laide et vieille... un vrai remède contre l'amour donc, comme aurait dit mon père....

Pas grand chose de commun entre les deux, parce que la mégère n'a rien d'amusant ni d'attachant...

 

[fetchezlavache]

i note however, to my great dismay, that atilf's definition of chipie is not at all how we all understand it in this thread, and is actually very close to 'mégère'. so i have to assume the meaning has evolved..

 

[Jabote]

i note however, to my great dismay, that atilf's definition of chipie is not at all how we all understand it in this thread, and is actually very close to 'mégère'. so i have to assume the meaning has evolved..

Well then let's hope that all the presently little chipies will not all evolve into mégères...

 

[RODGER]

Ok, but there's an idea of "cheeky" in "chipie" isn't there ? A brat is just a pain in the butt. So......."cheeky (little) brat"!!

Rodger

 

[williamtmiller]

The evolution of this thread explains why I asked the question in the first place. My wife is French and she told me that chipie was not really pejorative because I too had suggested brat but this word is too negative apparently for a chipie. It does not seem like we have come to any conclusions either? The evolution of the word chipie has perhaps left behind the english translation.

 

[RODGER]

Nope, it ain't evolution, nothing's untranslatable. We can tone it down to "cheeky little thing/miss or "she's a little miss" we're getting closer i think !

Rodger

 

[RODGER]

No, I've got it I think. Lunchtime brings inspiration. You'd say "the little madam !"

Rodger

 

[Gil]

No, I've got it I think. Lunchtime brings inspiration. You'd say "the little madam !"

Rodger

Nice try. But I don't it would cover all "chipie" situations, ages and sizes:
chipie [Gipi] n.*f.

? chipi 1821; p.-ê. de chiper et 1.*pie*

¨*Femme acariâtre*, difficile à vivre. Þ chameau, mégère. C'est une vraie chipie. ?*Appellatif Sale chipie!
*Petite fille qui aime à narguer.

I guess we will have to accept more than one possible translation, according to context.

 

[RODGER]

Well for the older lady , I agree, we have to open "la boîte à gifles" and plumb the depths of misogyny, so look out, some of this won't please everybody all of the time.

"an awkward bitch" (but looking at "chiper" and "pie" could give "a gold digger") then again "a right madam" " a cheeky piece" "a saucy baggage" (bit obsolete) " a right pain in the neck/arse" I don't think we're quite into "rompe-balle" territory here but almost, and finally, oh yes "a brazen hussey" ! Now I'd better get out before the feminist press release the pit bulls !

Rodger

 

[RODGER]

Oh, and for "sale chipie" try "a brass-necked slag"

I'm outa here

Rodger

 

[Benjy]

Oh, and for "sale chipie" try "a brass-necked slag"

I'm outa here

Rodger

hmm dont want to be irrataing but dont you think that brass necked slag is a little harsh? i mean, i could have misunderstood definition of any one of the words in this thread, but i didnt think chipie implied that the women in question was "loose" as such. brass-necked maybe (i love the image ) but i wouldn't have said slag :/

 

[RODGER]

Yes , I did hesitate, but we do have "sale chipie" to translate ! Maybe "brass necked slapper" though I'm not quite sure what slapper means, the trouble is there is a wide range here between the the "woman who is difficult to live with" (very correct description) the "chameau" or "cow" I suppose, the shrew and this "sale" person. I don't think "sale" is as strong in French as it is in English, we'd have to wait for a French native speaker to say, it could be just "bloody... someone. Certainly for the "older" chipie she's begionning to look more like a "garce" to me !

cheers

Rodger

 

[perthcb]

there is a french song called ta douleur by Camille- there is a line that goes, " Sale chipie de petite soeur " and the english translation is "Bitch of small sister salts". i know it sounds quirky but it really is a good song! anyway i dont know if that is helpful or not!

 

[french4beth]

How about 'biddy' or 'busybody' (this has the more gossipy element though) or 'old bag' ?

 

[emma42]

rodger beat me to it! I was going to say "Madam".

Little madam for a little girl
And little madam/right little madam/madam/proper madam for a woman?

 

[french4beth]

Very interesting - I learn something new every day!

Little madam for a little girlquote]
In American English, you could say "little miss thing" (in American English, a 'madam' is the woman who herds around her prostitutes, so I'd be careful using this term on this side of the pond ).

 

[zam]

In modern parlance, and in the vast majority of cases, 'chipie' means a 'waggish/impish/facetious/jokey' sort of person.
It is effectively the feminine equivalent of 'a lovable rogue', but as there aren't many terms for females that show iffy behaviour in a favourable light, it is not easy to find a satisfactory translation.
I suggest a 'lovable roguette' !

 

[zam]

And of course, who could forget the iconic song 'Chipie' -not !- by Gotainer, with its superbly crafted lyrics...
http://www.bide-et-musique.com/song/631.html

 

[shoepergirl]

feel free to object but i feel that MINX is the best interpretation in english.

'petite chipie' --> 'little minx'

that's as perfect as the interpretation gets imho

 

[zinc]

I still go with "vixen", although Rodger's (where are you Rodger ?) "Madam" and Fechezlavache's (where are you F-l-V ?) "brat" are still good.

 

[shoepergirl]

sure, but the dictionary says that a minx is 'a pert, impudent, or flirtatious girl' so i feel that would be fitting to a tee, no?

 

[wildan1]

I still go with "vixen", although Rodger's (where are you Rodger ?) "Madam" and Fechezlavache's (where are you F-l-V ?) "brat" are still good.

In AE vixen is a sexy and attractive woman, just a synonym for a (female) fox--completely the opposite of vieille chipie.

I would have to say most people would probably resort to the "b-word," as the media likes to call it: old bitch

Little miss thing is a cute one for petite chipie. Or a smarty-pants.

 

[bookishmiss]

How about drama queen?

 

[ladyjustine]

I'm with Shoepergirl. The phrase in English that best describes a cheeky little girl, espiègle rather than méchante, is minx.

A brat can be both sexes, but is pejorative. Nobody likes brats, whereas minxes are loveable!

I've not heard vixen in this context for a little girl - a vixen is a foxy lady - so there's something sexual about it to me. Shrew is a great word for a nagging woman, or fishwife.

 

[wildan1]

feel free to object but i feel that MINX is the best interpretation in english.

'petite chipie' --> 'little minx'

In BE, but in North America I don't believe most people would use or even know this meaning. Minx, in my experience, only refers to an adult (sexy, sassy, etc.) and not to a child.

 

[orlando09]

How about scamp ?

 

[ladyjustine]

In BE, but in North America I don't believe most people would use or even know this meaning. Minx, in my experience, only refers to an adult (sexy, sassy, etc.) and not to a child.

There is the very popular Miss Hanna Minx on Youtube - an American - but yes, she's definitely sexy and sassy. I'm thinking more Minnie the Minx, a British cartoon with a naughty little girl in it. My etymology dictionary says Mynx originally meant young dog! Perception of your audience is everything!

What about 'little imp?' Impish is a great word!

 

[Pat the Polyglot]

It may help to know the origin of chipie is the French word chiper (to bait). Bait can be attractive but is deceitful and a trap, and ultimately is used for another's harm or demise. A good example of the use of chipie is in Michel Maniere's adaption of La Belle et La Bete (Beauty in the Beast) where Belle's sisters are described as chipies. The sisters mock Belle because they are jealous of her beauty (both inside and out). In addition, they ask Belle to stay home under the pretense that she will be sorely missed, but in reality they hope that the Beast will devour her if she does not return to his castle.