Unknown language: Ghëarmiangelijanno

  • Stoggler

    Senior Member
    UK English
    It has the look of Albanian to me, but I've no idea really - I can't find anything online for it other than numerous articles and sites in Dutch relating to the same story as the link. Perhaps it's a made up name.
     

    123xyz

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    The name doesn't look Albanian at all - it is quite inconsistent with Albanian phonological restrictions. For example, "gh" doesn't occur in Albanian words (perhaps at morpheme boundaries, but certainly not in the syllable onset). Furthermore, Albanian doesn't have geminated consonants (nn).
     

    shawnee

    Senior Member
    English - Australian
    It looks like a compound name with the second part relating to 'Angeliano' for which there are some entries on the web. The closest on the web to the first part is 'Juliano', but that is not quite right.
     

    qwill

    Senior Member
    "Ghëarmiangelijanno" ...

    Ne serait-ce pas un mot issu du Ladin (en italien "ladino", à ne pas confondre avec le "ladino" judéo-espagnol), langue parlée dans les Dolomites, le Trentin et la Vénétie ?
    On y trouve le "gh" et le "ë"...
    Le ladin se subdivise lui-même en plusieurs dialectes dont l'un d'entre eux est le "Gherdëina" ...
    (Voir
    http://www.jdcorse.fr/JDC2/le-ladin-cinq-vallees-une-langue)
     

    Walshie79

    Member
    English (British)
    The name doesn't look Albanian at all - it is quite inconsistent with Albanian phonological restrictions. For example, "gh" doesn't occur in Albanian words (perhaps at morpheme boundaries, but certainly not in the syllable onset). Furthermore, Albanian doesn't have geminated consonants (nn).
    I thought one of the varieties of Albanian was called "Gheg"? Certainly Albanian was my first thought, though could it also be Maltese transliterated into Latin letters without the barred h?
     

    shawnee

    Senior Member
    English - Australian
    I only just noticed the Dutch link in the OP. Evidently, it's a female name - my + angel. Or am I mistaken?
     

    qwill

    Senior Member
    I'd be inclined to think it's the name of a boy. Born in the Netherlands but in a family most likely from the Dolomites area, i.e. North of Italy/South of Tyrol (region of Val Gardena) where people speak a dialect called "Gherdëina". An italian linguist has confirmed my first intuition : in his opinion, that baby name comes from that specific dialect...
     

    Stoggler

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Words generally don't start with gh in English. When they do, it's usually because it's a straight borrowing from the origin language, or a transliteration. Gheg is not a word on everyone's tongue, it's very unfamiliar and as it looks so alien in English, it's easy to assume that the digraph is a feature of that language. In fact, it's rather odd that the English name would have added an h after the g, anyone know why? Is it a change in the orthography? An attempt to represent aspiration in that variety?
     
    Last edited:

    Walshie79

    Member
    English (British)
    Very interesting, I always presumed that English borrowed the word as it was spelt in Albanian. If it is spelt without the h, why on earth did we add it? What sound exactly does it represent in Albanian?

    I can see where the "h" in "Ghent" came from; it's a fricative in Dutch and English still had that sound with the spelling "gh" when the name was borrowed. But "Gheg", it doesn't make sense if it's not there in Albanian. (Unless it was borrowed via something like Italian which would use gh- to represent a plosive?)
     

    ger4

    Senior Member
    German
    Here the name of the language is spelt 'Geg' - is it an American spelling or are both versions acceptable in English? According to Wikipedia, it is spelt 'Gheg' in English, 'ghega' in Italian and 'gegë' in modern Albanian. Here it says that Albanian used to have the letter combination of 'gh' where modern Albanian has 'gj' representing a sound similar to Hungarian 'gy'. Anyway, this doesn't really help either...
     
    Last edited:

    Stoggler

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Here it says that Albanian used to have the letter combination of 'gh' where modern Albanian has 'gj' representing a sound similar to Hungarian 'gy'. Anyway, this doesn't really help either...
    I suspect that's probably why it can be spelt with gh in English, a change in orthography. Although a borrowing via Italian wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility.
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    I am not quite sure why you are so hooked on Albanian. Except for the "ë" there is virtually nothing that looks Albanian about this word. Gwill's suggestion Ladin to make much more sense in my reckoning.
     

    123xyz

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    As for the origin of the "h" in the English word "Gheg", I don't know where it came from, but I suspect that it was inserted to indicate that the initial "g" should be a velar stop rather than a post-alveolar fricative, i.e. that the word should not be pronounced as "jeg", which is exactly what purpose the "h" serves in the Italian word as well. Either way, I don't think that it has anything to do with aspiration or the palatal stop "gj".
     

    M Mira

    Senior Member
    Mandarin
    Could it be that it made news because it's a DQN name (can't come up with the English word, basically names that make no sense and are borderline child abuse)?
     

    qwill

    Senior Member
    Interesting remark, M Mira... And, thanks to you, I have discovered a new word...

    (For those who'd be interested, see there :
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DQN
    or there :
    http://travel.cnn.com/tokyo/none/joy-and-pain-dqn-names-674680 )

    But, if it's a made-up name, it seems that we can recognize in it several other ones, all Italian (well, almost if we consider "Janno" as Dutch) :
    - Ghërardo (you can find it written with the "ë" in some old italian texts)
    - Mariangeli (which, strangely enough, here, is reversed into "Armiangeli")
    - Gianno ("Janno" in ladin dialect)
    unless "Janno", here, is Dutch, since one can find that name quite often in the Nederlands...)
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    ... - Ghërardo (you can find it written with the "ë" in some old italian texts)
    - Mariangeli (which, strangely enough, here, is reversed into "Armiangeli")
    - Gianno ("Janno" in ladin dialect)
    unless "Janno", here, is Dutch ...
    Gianni and other dialectal variants exist also in Italy and Mariangeli is not necessarily reversed as this "ar" may belong to the pervious "name". So, when trying to follow your logic, the "etymology" :))) could be something like this (with a bit of fantasy ...):

    Ghë(r)ar(do)-m(ar)i(a)-angel(o)-(i)janno


     

    qwill

    Senior Member
    Mariangeli is not necessarily reversed as this "ar" may belong to the pervious "name". So, when trying to follow your logic, the "etymology" :))) could be something like this (with a bit of fantasy ...):

    Ghë(r)ar(do)-m(ar)i(a)-angel(o)-(i)janno
    Ah yesss ! Bright deduction francisgranada ! :thumbsup:

    It looks like the parents had to struggle between three names and eventually decide to keep them all !!

    (I tried to say it out loud and, oh well, after a few tries, it doesnt sound that much weird, all well considered... ! :p )
     

    Stoggler

    Senior Member
    UK English
    I am not quite sure why you are so hooked on Albanian.
    It was my initial impression of the word, that was all. It came about because I thought the gh digraph was common in that language due to having come across the word gheg. No more than that. It very quickly became apparent that the word is not Albanian, but my initial suggestion seems to have raised other comments.

    No one is "hooked" on Albanian, it's just that one suggestion was the source of tangential discussion.
     

    shawnee

    Senior Member
    English - Australian
    Janno cf Balkan - Yianno and diminutive Yiannko. But I was thinking that the ending was not a name, but either a diminutive of Angel or a locational reference, as in Siciliano; but then there would have to be a place called Angel (?). I do like farncisgranada's version. I was thinking with an equal stretch of the imagination; if Ghear - could stand for 'dear' then I would construct something like My (mi) ghear (dear) little person (liano) from Angel? Ha! It has been a little fun though.
     

    luitzen

    Senior Member
    Frisian, Dutch and Low Saxon
    Really ? See here : https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Janno/+/nl-5664-Amsterdam-Area,-Netherlands

    But it may be rather uncommon, though... :rolleyes:
    Maybe it's an old Dutch name, but it's definitely not common. In this case, I have no reason to assume that -janno is of Dutch origin.
     

    qwill

    Senior Member
    Through the lens of all the former and clever contributions, and considering the multiple options, I would suggest that we eventually give a call to Ghëarmiangelijano's parents... :p
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top