unknown/obscure

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kansi

Senior Member
japanese
JETSANITY: How a Obscure Airline ETF Became an Overnight Sensation
The US Global Jets ETF (JETS) has seen over half a billion dollars worth of inflows over 50 straight days - unheard numbers for a thematic ETF - despite the fund's 60% year-to-date decline and selling from Warren Buffett. But the depressed airline industry is attracting retail value investors in droves who see huge upside potential as well as looking for a proxy for the re-opening and rebound of the global economy.

Unknown submarine landslides discovered in Gulf of Mexico

A Florida State University researcher has used new detection methods to identify 85 previously unknown submarine landslides that occurred in the Gulf of Mexico between 2008 and 2015, leading to questions about the stability of oil rigs and other structures, such as pipelines built in the region.

JETSANITY: How a Obscure Airline ETF Became an Overnight Sensation

They seem to have the same meaning. What's the difference in meaning and nuance between the two?
 
  • lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    That first headline has a glaring error in it. You can’t say “a obscure airline”. It must be “an” before “obscure”.

    The words obscure and unknown do not mean the same, even though either of them might work in certain statements.

    Obscure (adjective) = vague, unclear; hard to make out/determine (visually or mentally)
    Obscure (verb) = block from view; conceal

    Unknown = not known
     
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    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    That first headline has a glaring error in it. You can’t say “a obscure airlne”. It must be “an” before “obscure”.

    The words obscure and unknown do not mean the same, even though either of them might work in certain statements.

    Obscure (adjective) = vague, unclear; hard to make out/determine (visually or mentally)
    Obscure (verb) = block from view; conceal

    Unknown = not known
    Well then what does "an obscure airline ETF" in the headline mean?
     

    JulianStuart

    Senior Member
    English (UK then US)
    Well then what does "an obscure airline ETF" in the headline mean?
    In this kind of context, an obscure thing is one that not many people know/knew about. Unknown mean "no-one" knew about it: until they were discovered the "unknown" landslides were things no-one knew about.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    In this kind of context, an obscure thing is one that not many people know/knew about. Unknown mean "no-one" knew about it: until they were discovered the "unknown" landslides were things no-one knew about.
    Ah I see. obscure things have been known by some people. It's just not popular. If I happen to find an unknown thing, it's a discovery.

    In this kind of context, an obscure thing is one that not many people know/knew about. Unknown mean "no-one" knew about it: until they were discovered the "unknown" landslides were things no-one knew about.
    Increased blood pressure can damage blood vessels, the heart and kidneys, among other organs. However, the risk of having hypertension remains unknown for many people despite a wide range of studies and medical warnings.

    In some cases, people tend to ignore their condition due to misinformation. To date, some myths are still widely thought to be true, which could negatively affect how one addresses high blood pressure.

    5 High Blood Pressure Myths: Facts Debunking Misconceptions About Hypertension

    Can we say "obscure" at the bold ,holding the same meaning?
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    No. :rolleyes:

    It’s a bad example, and the sentence is not well written anyway. It specifically means that, despite all the research, individual risk is still not calculable. The word obscure is not appropriate.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    No. :rolleyes:

    It’s a bad example, and the sentence is not well written anyway. It specifically means that, despite all the research, individual risk is still not calculable. The word obscure is not appropriate.
    Even unknown isn't appropriate?


    I thought it meant individual risk was calculable but a lot of people didn't know that.
     

    Packard

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    If I were to compare the words I would do it like this:

    Unknown = not known
    Obscure = little known or known by only a few
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    If I were to compare the words I would do it like this:

    Unknown = not known
    Obscure = little known or known by only a few
    Then do you think that unknown isn't appropriate in #6? Because it seems to mean that it the risk is still unknown/isn't calculable for all of us, not that some people know that.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    No, it's unknown.

    I'm sure if you read the article, it will tell you more.
    I see.

    unknown for many people = not known by many people
    obscure = known by only a few

    There is a difference in how popular(known) it is so we can't replace that "unknown for many people" with obscure?
     
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    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    There is a difference in how popular(known) it is so we can replace that "unknown for many people" with obscure?
    No. Each person has an individual risk. If the risk were known, it would be known by the person and their doctor. It wouldn't be "popular" to know John Smith's exact risk level.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    No. Each person has an individual risk. If the risk were known, it would be known by the person and their doctor. It wouldn't be "popular" to know John Smith's exact risk level.
    Ah that part is saying that just a few people know their own risk?

    No. "Unknown for many people" and "unknown by many people" do not mean the same thing.
    I didn't know that. how different are they?
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    OK. So now you've got it?
    Well...
    If it were "obscure", it would mean "the risk (each person's risk) is not popular at all" and that sounds like a few people know someone else's risk.And this doesn't make sense because it isn't necessary at all that people know someone else's risk ,not their own risks?
     

    Roxxxannne

    Senior Member
    American English (New England and NYC)
    "Unknown for many people" means that the chances of the medical problem occurring is unknown in the case of many people.
    People I'll call A, B, C, D, and E have some condition. Doctors know the cause of A's condition. But for B, C, D, E, doctors have no idea of the cause. The cause of the condition is unknown for many people.

    "Unknown to many people" means that in the minds of many people, or to many people's knowledge, the cause is unknown.
    Imagine a fictitious situation in which everyone who has been to medical school knows the cause of a certain medical condition, but it's a secret known only to doctors, so one else knows the cause. So, because many people have not been to medical school, the cause is unknown to many people.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    Unknown for many people" means that the chances of the medical problem occurring is unknown in the case of many people.
    People I'll call A, B, C, D, and E have some condition. Doctors know the cause of A's condition. But for B, C, D, E, doctors have no idea of the cause. The cause of the condition is unknown for many people.
    Does this mean that "unknown for many people" mean many people don't know their own causes of the conditions, not the general process to cause the conditions"?
     

    kalamazoo

    Senior Member
    US, English
    I read the sentence slightly differently. "Increased blood pressure can damage blood vessels, the heart and kidneys, among other organs. However, the risk of having hypertension remains unknown for many people despite a wide range of studies and medical warnings. " To me this means, that having hypertension carries risks, such as damage to blood vessels, but a lot of people don't know that hypertension is associated with those kinds of risks. So it's not talking about a specific calculation, but rather the general risks that can arise from having hypertension, and it is saying that a lot of people don't know about those general risks. So, yes, I would say it is okay to say that those risks associated with having hypertension are unknown for those specific people, although those risks are not unknown in general.
     

    Roxxxannne

    Senior Member
    American English (New England and NYC)
    I read the sentence slightly differently. "Increased blood pressure can damage blood vessels, the heart and kidneys, among other organs. However, the risk of having hypertension remains unknown for many people despite a wide range of studies and medical warnings. " To me this means, that having hypertension carries risks, such as damage to blood vessels, but a lot of people don't know that hypertension is associated with those kinds of risks. So it's not talking about a specific calculation, but rather the general risks that can arise from having hypertension, and it is saying that a lot of people don't know about those general risks. So, yes, I would say it is okay to say that those risks associated with having hypertension are unknown for those specific people, although those risks are not unknown in general.
    I see what you mean, but to me that would be expressed with 'unknown to', as in
    The existence of North America was unknown to the ancient Greeks.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    I read the sentence slightly differently. "Increased blood pressure can damage blood vessels, the heart and kidneys, among other organs. However, the risk of having hypertension remains unknown for many people despite a wide range of studies and medical warnings. " To me this means, that having hypertension carries risks, such as damage to blood vessels, but a lot of people don't know that hypertension is associated with those kinds of risks. So it's not talking about a specific calculation, but rather the general risks that can arise from having hypertension, and it is saying that a lot of people don't know about those general risks. So, yes, I would say it is okay to say that those risks associated with having hypertension are unknown for those specific people, although those risks are not unknown in general.
    It sounds like you are saying something very similar. The general risks are known to people but their own risks are unknown for people.If it were "to" people, it would sound like people somehow should know others's risks?
     

    kalamazoo

    Senior Member
    US, English
    The sentence is not very well written. I don't think we should read too much into it. I agree that "to" would be better than "for" but the whole sentence is awkward. To me, one way to restate what the author is trying to say would be::
    "Increased blood pressure can damage blood vessels, the heart and kidneys, among other organs. However, despite a wide range of studies and medical warnings, many people do not realize that having hypertension is associated with these risks,. " Getting back to the topic at hand, "unknown" means that something is not known, either to a specific person or persons or to the world in general. "Obscure" on the other hand, suggests something that people are not paying much attention to or that has attracted little interest.
     

    kansi

    Senior Member
    japanese
    "Obscure" on the other hand, suggests something that people are not paying much attention to or that has attracted little interest
    It's like obscure in general talks a bit about reasons why something is unknown by the sense of not paying much attention or attracting little interest in its meaning?
     
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