until everything got sorted out

J352SAURUS

Member
English
Hi everyone,

I'm having a little trouble translating a sentence from English to Italian. The context is that my friend told me that she was having trouble enrolling in a particular university class, but another lecturer from the same field allowed her to attend her class until my friend could get her enrollment issues resolved. I am trying to say:

I’m glad that the lecturer let you attend her class until everything got sorted out.

My attempt is:

Sono contenta che la professoressa ti abbia permesso di frequentare la sua lezione fino a quando non tutto fosse risolto.

However, I am confused about a few things:

(1) Is "fino a quando non" the correct phrase to use, or should I use something like "finché non" instead?

(2) Is it correct to say "fino a quando non tutto" or should it be "fino a quando tutto non"?

(3) Did I use the correct tense after "fino a quando non"? I often get tripped up about which tense to use.

(4) What is the best way to express "to sort out"? I found a couple of different verbs, like "sistemare" and "risolvere", but I don't know if either of those are appropriate.

Thank you for your help.
 
  • Starless74

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Hi, J352
    first of all, my version:
    Sono contenta/o che la professoressa ti abbia permesso di frequentare la sua lezione fino a quando tutto non si fosse risolto/sistemato.
    (1) see above ;) ;
    (2) finché e fino a quando are both ok anyway;
    (3) yes, the tense you used is correct;
    (4) sistemarsi e risolversi (rifl.) in your context are synonymous and both work.
     

    ohbice

    Senior Member
    I’m glad that the lecturer let you attend her class until everything got sorted out.

    Sono contenta che la professoressa ti abbia permesso di frequentare la sua lezione fino a quando non tutto fosse risolto.


    (1) Is "fino a quando" the correct phrase to use, or should I use something like "finché" instead? fino a quando, fino a che, finché are all the same thing

    (2) Is it correct to say "fino a quando non tutto":cross: or should it be "fino a quando tutto non"? :tick:

    (3) Did I use the correct tense after "fino a quando non"? I often get tripped up about which tense to use.:tick:

    (4) What is the best way to express "to sort out"? I found a couple of different verbs, like "sistemare" and "risolvere", but I don't know if either of those are appropriate. sistemare, risolvere, appianare, andare a posto... and more :)
    Pay attention to the non particle: it is not necessary, but if you use it:
    - fino a che tutto non si fosse appianato-> all is ok
    - fino a che non tutto si fosse appianato ->not all is ok
     

    J352SAURUS

    Member
    English
    Pay attention to the non particle: it is not necessary, but if you use it:
    - fino a che tutto non si fosse appianato-> all is ok
    - fino a che non tutto si fosse appianato ->not all is ok
    Thank you very much! That's very helpful! Does the sentence sound any different if I use "non" or not?

    Hi, J352
    first of all, my version:
    Sono contenta/o che la professoressa ti abbia permesso di frequentare la sua lezione fino a quando tutto non si fosse risolto/sistemato.
    (1) see above ;) ;
    (2) finché e fino a quando are both ok anyway;
    (3) yes, the tense you used is correct;
    (4) sistemarsi e risolversi (rifl.) in your context are synonymous and both work.
    Thank you very much! Very useful! I noticed that you used the reflexive, while ohbice didn't. Is there a difference between reflexive and not reflexive here?
     

    Starless74

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Thank you very much! Very useful! I noticed that you used the reflexive, while ohbice didn't. Is there a difference between reflexive and not reflexive here?
    The reflexive is obligatory in this case, I'm pretty sure ohbice meant the same, despite listing the verbs in the active form. ;)
    [ cross - posted ]
     

    J352SAURUS

    Member
    English
    No. In some constructions we use to insert a pleonastic non, but the meaning is exactly the same.
    The more you know! Thank you! It's nice to have a choice sometimes :p

    The reflexive is obligatory in this case, I'm pretty sure ohbice meant the same, despite listing the verbs in the active form. ;)
    [ cross - posted ]
    Fantastic, good to know. Thank you! It's always a good day when you learn some new words.
     

    Starless74

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    Does the sentence sound any different if I use "non" or not?
    I agree with ohbice, the sentence would have the same meaning with or without "non".
    I suppose it's the same slight nuance that exists among till, 'til and until (I'd better not digress too much on this, though ;))
     

    bearded

    Senior Member
    Well, I have the impression that 'fosse' would shift the action to a remote past, whereas your sentence seems to refer to a recent event. And for me that 'si' is superfluous. Since you understand Italian, maybe you can follow also the discussion here.
     

    J352SAURUS

    Member
    English
    Well, I have the impression that 'fosse' would shift the action to a remote past, whereas your sentence seems to refer to a recent event. And for me that 'si' is superfluous. Since you understand Italian, maybe you can follow also the discussion here.
    Yes, you're right. That makes a lot of sense actually to use "sia stato risolto" instead. So, just to clarify, if this event happened a long time ago instead of recently, it would probably be more appropriate to use "fosse"? And, if so, would I need to change anything else?

    Oh wow, how about that, haha. A new thread. I read through it and I understand. Thanks for that! Very helpful!
     

    lövastrell

    Member
    Italiano, Italia
    Hi. Another small issue: "lezione" in Italian is more restricted than 'class'. It can only refer to a single lesson, not to a whole course. So, if your case is the latter, it's better rendered as "ti abbia permesso di frequentare le sue lezioni/il suo corso". If you say 'la sua lezione', this can only mean she let the person attend that very day. Hope this might be useful.
     

    J352SAURUS

    Member
    English
    Hi. Another small issue: "lezione" in Italian is more restricted than 'class'. It can only refer to a single lesson, not to a whole course. So, if your case is the latter, it's better rendered as "ti abbia permesso di frequentare le sue lezioni/il suo corso". If you say 'la sua lezione', this can only mean she let the person attend that very day. Hope this might be useful.
    You're right, that is very useful. Thank you! I love learning about different meanings and how a language sounds to people. In this case, yes, it was multiple lessons, so it should be le sue lezioni/il suo corso. Thanks again.
     

    Starless74

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    if this event happened a long time ago instead of recently, it would probably be more appropriate to use "fosse"?
    Yes. And that's the way I got it at first reading... sorry.
    if everything did get sorted out already, then fosse is the way to go;
    if everything hasn't got sorted out yet, then "non si è risolto" / "non si sarà risolto".
     

    Tellure

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Hi, J352
    first of all, my version:
    Sono contenta/o che la professoressa ti abbia permesso di frequentare la sua lezione fino a quando tutto non si fosse risolto/sistemato.
    Invece, per me questa è la traduzione giusta in base alla consecutio temporum. Se nella proposizione principale il tempo è al passato, nella subordinata non può essere al presente o al futuro, proprio come succede nel testo di partenza in inglese, d'altra parte. Questo è il mio pensiero.
     
    Last edited:

    J352SAURUS

    Member
    English
    It might be a matter of personal taste, but to my ear it sounds wrong.
    ...fino a quando tutto (non) si è risolto.
    Thank you for your contribution! Can you explain why it sounds wrong to your ear? So far we've had "si fosse risolto", "fosse risolto", "sia stato risolto", and "si è risolto" and now I'm a bit lost, haha.

    Yes. And that's the way I got it at first reading... sorry.
    if everything did get sorted out already, then fosse is the way to go
    No problem at all! That was my mistake. I probably should have been clearer. What kind of time frame does "fosse" use? How long ago is "long ago"? This happened back in July, so only a few months ago, and everything was resolved back then. Is that long enough ago to use "fosse"?

    Questo è il mio pensiero.
    Thank you for your contribution! I really appreciate it!
     

    Starless74

    Senior Member
    Italiano
    This happened back in July, so only a few months ago, and everything was resolved back then. Is that long enough ago to use "fosse"?
    No matter how long ago: if the problems have been solved, I'd use fosse.
    Let me explain in detail:
    the lecturer admitted your friend to her class before the problems are fully resolved; the resolution is certainly future in relation to the admission;

    Scenario [A] - you're talking about these facts while the problems are not resolved yet:
    ...la professoressa ti ha permesso di frequentare il suo corso finché tutto non (si) è risolto / non (si) sarà risolto.
    Scenario [B] (yours!) - you're talking about these facts after the problems have been resolved (it may be one minute ago or six months ago):
    ...la professoressa ti ha permesso di frequentare il suo corso finché tutto non (si) fosse risolto. (i.e. the Italian equivalent of future in the past)​
    Hope this helps.​
     
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