until then

D

danielxu85

Senior Member
Qingdao
Mandarin Chinese
There is a scene from a movie. Two lawyers are saying goodbye to each other after resolving a case on behalf of their clients.
A: It has been a real pleasure to meet both you and Molisa, and I wish you continued health and happiness in the future.
B: You know we have a little saying in Massachusete, maybe some day you'll get horribly sick and and die,(pause) until then.
A suddenly laughed, said "you dog" and left.

I am completely bewidered and bewitched by this scene. What is A laughing about? I don't get the humor. He should be angry, because it seems like a curse from B.
 
    • I'm not sure, but maybe B means he wishes A health and happines until the day he gets horribly sick and die...until then...
    What do you think?
     
    danielxu85 said:
    There is a scene from a movie. Two lawyers are saying goodbye to each other after resolving a case on behalf of their clients.
    A: It has been a real pleasure to meet both you and Molisa, and I wish you continued health and happiness in the future.
    B: You know we have a little saying in Massachusete, maybe some day you'll get horribly sick and and die,(pause) until then.
    B suddenly laughed, said "you dog" and left.

    I am completely bewidered and bewitched by this scene. What is B laughing about? I don't get the humor. He should be angry, because it seems like a curse from A.
    Click to expand...

    Hi Daniel, It sounds to me as though A won the case. B is irritated and is saying 'see you in hell' (jocularly) - that's the point of the until then. I don't see what A says as a curse, though it may well have heavy playful ironic emphasis.

    A lot depends on the tone of voice in a conversation like this.

    Bear in mind that Americans if they know each other well think little of being quite insulting to each other, as a kind of banter, of showing grudging admiration for, or irritation with, someone who has beaten them about something. This may be particularly true of lawyers who are constantly meeting each other in confrontational circumstances.
     
    The movie is actually "Boston Legal" and the lawyer is Alan Shore (James Spader):

    Alan Shore: You know we have a little saying in Massachusetts, "Maybe someday you'll get horribly sick and die."
    [Melvin looks startled]
    Alan Shore: Until then!
    Attorney Melvin Palmer: Oh!
    [he starts to laugh]
    Attorney Melvin Palmer: You. You dog.
    [he leaves]
    Attorney Melvin Palmer: Ah...

    Reading this quote from imbd I assume that this attorney Melvin didn't get it as well. And I think there is no saying either but it is one of this lines why Boston Legal is so fantastic.
     
    Hi, Mustang. Many thanks for this. I've never heard of the film, so you must enlighten me: do you think my analysis is correct?

    I'm not surprised you don't think there is such a saying; it sounds much more like something he's just invented.
     
    Thomas Tompion said:
    Hi, Mustang. Many thanks for this. I've never heard of the film, so you must enlighten me: do you think my analysis is correct?

    I'm not surprised you don't think there is such a saying; it sounds much more like something he's just invented.
    Click to expand...
    Since I'm not a native it is hard to tell what the meaning is but taking Shore's character into account I would say "see you in hell" is a very pointed translation for me.

    Boston Legal is a US TV-Series at ABC and began in 2004 starring William Shatner (yes, Captain Kirk), James Spader and Candice Bergen. Search for that series at imdb.com or other sites and have a look at the quotes. You have to love 'em

    For me it's one of the not-to-miss shows on TV!
     
    Let me start by saying I'm not any more sure because I'm a native... :)

    I think the humor is that the first lawyer is saying something nice and polite to a rival. Etiquette would have you expect the other lawyer to respond in kind. Instead, he responds with exactly the opposite wish.

    A: Continued health and happiness.
    B: May you sicken and die, and I hope I don't see you until then.

    It's surprising because it's such a shocking thing to say in response to a polite wish for health and happiness.
     
    JamesM said:
    ... It's surprising because it's such a shocking thing to say in response to a polite wish for health and happiness.
    Click to expand...
    It's all about context. I guess we need to know why they faced each other in court. I'm afraid I really have to buy the DVDs.

    Edit:
    I just found a podcast where they discuss that episode and even have some excerpts. Alan has a face off with the credit card industry. The other party offers a settlement which they believe is very generous. While they take the offer Alan is still very outraged by their business ethics and expresses his farewell. I believe "Go to hell" is what anyway else would have said. But it's Alan Shore!
     
    I would assume that although these two lawyers have been on opposite sides in this case they are friends. In this context, friends might well exchange light-hearted abuse.

    Where does the humour lie in this exchange? I think the key to the humour lies in the little phrase until then, which I don't think has been explained.

    This is an allusion to the kind of farewell that sincerely looks forward to the next time we meet. Something like:
    "I'm really looking forward to our meeting again in June, but until then, good bye."
    The little tag phrase "until then" by itself is enough to invoke this kind of meaning - that the speaker is really looking forward to the until then moment.

    Back to these two friends walking from the courtroom where they have been adversaries.
    A makes a pleasant social comment.
    It has been a real pleasure to meet both you and Molisa, and I wish you continued health and happiness in the future.
    Then B says:
    You know we have a little saying in Massachusets, maybe some day you'll get horribly sick and and die.
    That's a rather mysterious comment - leaving A wondering what the point might be - and leaving the audience wondering too. It's not a specially insulting comment so far.
    Then B adds the little allusive phrase
    ... until then ...
    ... which immediately brings to mind the sense of B looking forward to that time; A realises that he's the victim of a clever bit of friendly abuse after all. A laughs, we all laugh. There is no malicious intent whatsoever.
     
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