upstairs, downstairs

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  • dn88

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Hello,

    "I am upstairs." - "Jestem na górze."
    "I am downstairs." - "Jestem na dole."
    "I'm going upstairs." - "Idę/schodzę na dół."
    "I'm going downstairs." - "Idę/wchodzę na górę."

    In #3 and #4 the literal translation of "upstairs/downstairs" would be "schodami na górę/schodami w (or "na") dół", but in practice "schodami" is almost always omitted.

    dn88
     

    dn88

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Hello,

    "I am upstairs." - "Jestem na górze."
    "I am downstairs." - "Jestem na dole."
    "I'm going upstairs." - "Idę/wchodzę na górę."
    "I'm going downstairs." - "Idę/schodzę na dół."

    In #3 and #4 the literal translation of "upstairs/downstairs" would be "schodami na górę/schodami w (or "na") dół", but in practice "schodami" is almost always omitted.

    dn88
    Sorry, I mixed them up. :eek:

    dn88
     

    tkekte

    Senior Member
    Russian/Israel
    Chyba wchodzić można gdzie się chce, a schodzić na gorę myslę że nie. :p
    To mysliacy logiczno... a oto na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być. :)

    [please correct my broken Polish :p .. if it's understandable at all?]
     

    to_ja_zozo

    New Member
    Poland / Polish
    Cześć,
    What really confuses me here is that both expressions use "na" although one expression talks about being somewhere whereas the talks about going somewhere. I have to find a way to remember this. I'm always getting them confused. Any suggestions?

    Dziękuję bardzo,
    Drei
    hi,

    the difference is in the verb, not the preposition:

    jestem (być) refers to being somewhere
    schodzę (schodzić) / wchodzę (wchodzić) refers to the movement

    zozo
     

    tkekte

    Senior Member
    Russian/Israel
    Cześć,
    What really confuses me here is that both expressions use "na" although one expression talks about being somewhere whereas the talks about going somewhere. I have to find a way to remember this. I'm always getting them confused. Any suggestions?

    Dziękuję bardzo,
    Drei
    I think the difference is in the cases...

    iść na dół <-- accusative case
    być na dole <-- locative case

    :)
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    A czy można wchodzić na dół albo schodzić na górę? :D
    A dlaczego nie można? :)
    Chyba wchodzić można gdzie się chce, a schodzić na górę myslę, że nie. :p
    To mysliacy logicznoMyśląc logicznie... a oto na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być. :)

    [please correct my broken Polish :p .. if it's understandable at all?]
    I think the difference is in the cases...

    iść na dół <-- accusative case
    być na dole <-- locative case

    :)
    There surely is, but I think it is the preposition na that dictates here the case. :)

    If na implies a venue where something happens, tekes place, occurs, etc. then it requires the the locative, eg:
    Projekcja filmu odbywa się na dole kina.
    The film projection is taking place on the downstairs of the cinema.

    If na implies a place towards which an action is taken/directed then it requires the accusative, eg:
    Wiele osób wchodziło na górę po schodach ponieważ zepsuła się winda.
    Many people were going upstairs using the stairs because the elevator had broken down.


    Tom
     

    tkekte

    Senior Member
    Russian/Israel
    Hi Tom...

    With your fix (myśląc logicznie), I think you might have changed the logic of my broken sentence. :)

    I wanted to say

    "You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."

    You changed the last sentence to something that sounds (to me) like "If you think logically, then everything is possible on Escher's paintings."
    The contrast that I wanted to make is that, logically thinking, it's impossible to come down upstairs, unless you are in an Escher painting.
    Maybe this could convey that contrast: "То jeśli myśleć logicznie. Choć na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być."

    Of course all of this might be completely wrong.. I'm just guessing things. :p
    How would you translate to Polish what I wrote in English?

    Thank you for helping. :)
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Hi Tom...

    With your fix (myśląc logicznie), I think you might have changed the logic of my broken sentence. :)

    I wanted to say

    "You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."

    You changed the last sentence to something that sounds (to me) like "If you think logically, then everything is possible on Escher's paintings."
    The contrast that I wanted to make is that, logically thinking, it's impossible to come down upstairs, unless you are in an Escher painting.
    Maybe this could convey that contrast: "То jeśli myśleć logicznie. Choć na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być."

    Of course all of this might be completely wrong.. I'm just guessing things. :p
    How would you translate to Polish what I wrote in English?

    Thank you for helping. :)
    I think what you have written here roughly is said in what I corrected. :)

    Myśląc logicznie... to na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być.
    Logically thinking... in Esher's paintings, everthing can be.


    "You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."
    Można wejść wszędzie gdzie się chce, ale nie wydaje mi się, że można zejść na górę. Zatem, logicznie myśląc, na obrazach Eschera wszystko jest mozliwe.*

    "If you think logically, then everything is possible on Escher's paintings."
    Jeśli pomyśleć logicznie, to wszystko jest możliwe na obrazach Eschera.

    "То jeśli myśleć logicznie. Choć na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być."
    These sentences need some alterations to sound good in Polish.
    "То Jeśli myśleć logicznie Choć to na obrazach Eschera może być wszystko (this order sounds much better to me, I didn't correct it last time as it is acceptable, but off as well, so I'm mentioning it now)."*


    Hope this helps (and that the mod won't get too cheesed off :))

    Tom


    EDIT: I retract these translations, please see the posts below for clarification.
     

    Piotr_WRF

    Senior Member
    Polish, German
    I think what you have written here roughly is said in what I corrected. :)

    Myśląc logicznie... to na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być.
    Logically thinking... in Esher's paintings, everthing can be.


    "You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."
    Można wejść wszędzie gdzie się chce, ale nie wydaje mi się, że można zejść na górę. Zatem, logicznie myśląc, na obrazach Eschera wszystko jest mozliwe.

    "If you think logically, then everything is possible on Escher's paintings."
    Jeśli pomyśleć logicznie, to wszystko jest możliwe na obrazach Eschera.
    I too think that that's not what tkekte meant. In my opinion the part "logically thinking" refers to that you can't "come down upstairs". In contrast to that, i.e. putting logic aside, on Escher's paintings you can't be so sure anymore.
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    I too think that that's not what tkekte meant. In my opinion the part "logically thinking" refers to that you can't "come down upstairs". In contrast to that, i.e. putting logic aside, on Escher's paintings you can't be so sure anymore.
    Oh, I see I got it a bit differently thinking that myśląc logicznie referred to the Escher sentence. That's why I thought it was a bit illogical ... ;)

    It's due to using a separate line and lower case in tkekte's post:
    tkekte said:
    Chyba wchodzić można gdzie się chce, a schodzić na gorę myslę że nie. :p
    To mysliacy logiczno... a oto na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być. :)
    Thanks fo the clarification, Piotr.


    I didn't see, however, the change in the next post. Now, the following should read:
    "You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."
    Można wejść wszędzie gdzie się chce, ale nie wydaje mi się, że można zejść na górę. To logicznie myśląc. Jednak, na obrazach Eschera wszystko jest mozliwe.

    tkekte, your sentence:
    "То jeśli myśleć logicznie. Choć na obrazach Eschera, może być wszystko."
    works fine in that case (after the change of the order), I'd also swap choć for chociaż, which sounds better to me.


    Tom
     
    Cześć everyone,

    In English you can do the following:

    1. Come upstairs. - "Come upstairs now. I have something to show you." "come" here implies towards the speaker of the command.

    2. Come downstairs. - same as number 1 except that the speaker is downstairs at the time of issuing the command.

    3. Go upstairs. "Go upstairs now. I want you to see if there is a thief there."
    "go" here implies away from the speaker

    4. Go downstairs. - same as number 3 except that the speaker is upstairs at the time of issuing the command.
    5. Be upstairs. - "I enjoy being upstairs where I can see the mountains better through the window."
    6. Be downstairs. - "I enjoy being downstairs where I can get away from my noisy siblings playing upstairs."

    Not sure about the range of verbs used in Polish as verbs are quite specific to a language.

    Drei
     

    Piotr_WRF

    Senior Member
    Polish, German
    There surely is, but I think it is the preposition na that dictates here the case. :)
    But how can this be? It's the same preposition after all. To me, it's the other way round. It's the case (locative or accusative) that conveys the meaning.
    An example:

    locative case:
    patrzyć na dole - to look around downstairs (while being oneself downstairs, too)

    accusative case:
    patrzyć na dół - to look downstairs (while being upstairs)
     

    .Jordi.

    Senior Member
    polonès
    A dlaczego nie można? :)

    Tom
    Ponieważ wyrażenia ,,schodzić na dół'' i "wchodzić na górę" są konstrukcjami redunandantnymi :).

    Ale cóż, niektórzy to nawet nie widzą błędu w sformułowaniach typu "akwen wodny" czy też "cofnąć się do tyłu".:D
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    But how can this be? It's the same preposition after all. To me, it's the other way round. It's the case (locative or accusative) that conveys the meaning.
    An example:

    locative case:
    patrzyć na dole - to look around downstairs (while being oneself downstairs, too)

    accusative case:
    patrzyć na dół - to look downstairs (while being upstairs)
    I'd say:
    patrzeć na dole - still the action is taking place downstairs
    patrzeć w dół - you're directing your eyes downwards
    In these caes it is the preposition that makes the difference in the case.

    If the verb were the factor deciding on the case it would be:
    Patrzeć dołem which doesn't make any sense.

    Ponieważ wyrażenia ,,schodzić na dół'' i "wchodzić na górę" są konstrukcjami redunandantnymi :).

    Ale cóż, niektórzy to nawet nie widzą błędu w sformułowaniach typu "akwen wodny" czy też "cofnąć się do tyłu".:D
    W pewnych kontekstach tego typu sformuowania wydają się w porządku:
    Helikopter unosił się nad szczytem, żołnierze zeszli jeden po drugim na górę pokrytą śniegiem.
    Monika Olejnik: Czy ci górnicy, którzy weszli na dół to byli zawodowcy?
    Źródło
    Takie przykłady nie są częste, ale istnieją.

    Tom
     

    Marga H

    Senior Member
    Poland,Polish
    Cześć everyone,

    In English you can do the following:
    It is possible in Polish too.
    1. Come upstairs. - "Come upstairs now. I have something to show you." "come" here implies towards the speaker of the command. Przyjdż na górę.

    2. Come downstairs. - same as number 1 except that the speaker is downstairs at the time of issuing the command. Przyjdż na dół.

    3. Go upstairs. "Go upstairs now. I want you to see if there is a thief there."
    "go" here implies away from the speaker Idż na górę.

    4. Go downstairs. - same as number 3 except that the speaker is upstairs at the time of issuing the command. Idż na dół.
    Wejdż and zejdż is possible in both situations.
    5. Be upstairs. - "I enjoy being upstairs where I can see the mountains better through the window."
    6. Be downstairs. - "I enjoy being downstairs where I can get away from my noisy siblings playing upstairs."
    Jestem na górze/na dole.I am upstairs/downstairs. Zostań ze mną na górze/na dole.-Stay with me upstairs/downstairs.

    Not sure about the range of verbs used in Polish as verbs are quite specific to a language.

    Drei
     
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