Urdu: چون کے بھی برے ہوتے ہیں

Gop

Senior Member
Tamil
Friends,
Could you please explain the meaning of دو تو چون کے بھی برے ہوتے ہیں in the following text:

بس ان حالات میں عسکری تاثیر اتحاد وجود میں آیا۔
ع
یہ اتحاد مبارک ہو مومنوں کے لیے

مگر ترقی پسندوں کے لیے یہ اتحاد کوئی نیک شگن نہیں تھا۔ دو تو چون کے بھی برے ہوتے ہیں۔ اور یہ دو تو اپنی اپنی جگہ ادب میں

بڑی حیثیت رکھتے تھے۔

Thanks.
 
  • Gop

    Senior Member
    Tamil
    I'm afraid I've no idea, Gope SaaHib.
    Maybe if you had more context, would that have helped? I am attaching a screenshot of the relevant text. Lines 4-5 from the bottom have the ‘incomprehensible’ words:
     

    Attachments

    • 0BFCC8A0-2D26-4631-B98A-8794CAB0B67A.jpeg
      0BFCC8A0-2D26-4631-B98A-8794CAB0B67A.jpeg
      261.3 KB · Views: 10

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    P چون ćūṅ (contrac. of ći-gūnā), adv. Like, in the manner of, as, such as; when; — how? why? wherefore?; — conj. Because, forasmuch as, &c. ( = ćūṅ-ki): — ćūṅ-ě-be-ćigūn, adj. & s.m. Without likeness, incomparable; — the incomparable One, the Deity:ćūn-ćirā, ćūṅ-o-ćirā, Why and wherefore?; wrangling, altercation, dispute: — ćūṅ-ćirā karnā, ćūṅ karnā, To demand why and wherefore; to question, to object; to wrangle, dispute: — ćūṅ-o-ćirā na karnā, To ask no questions, to remain silent: — ćūṅ-ki, adv. & conj. When that; seeing that, whereas, forasmuch as, inasmuch as, since.

    This could be a possible explanation.

    chuun-i- = the like of

    be-chiguun = without likeness

    So, in "do to chuun ke bhii bure hote haiN", if we take "chuun" as "God", then in Islamic religious thought pattern, two Gods are unacceptable as the faith is based on the oneness of God.

    A bit far fetched perhaps.

    Another article by Intizar Hussain where he mentions the same sentence, in the paragraph beginning with the sentence..

    .جوں جوں 14 اگست کی تاریخ قریب آ رہی تھی

    https://www.express.pk/story/280457/
     
    Last edited:

    Gop

    Senior Member
    Tamil
    P چون ćūṅ (contrac. of ći-gūnā), adv. Like, in the manner of, as, such as; when; — how? why? wherefore?; — conj. Because, forasmuch as, &c. ( = ćūṅ-ki): — ćūṅ-ě-be-ćigūn, adj. & s.m. Without likeness, incomparable; — the incomparable One, the Deity:ćūn-ćirā, ćūṅ-o-ćirā, Why and wherefore?; wrangling, altercation, dispute: — ćūṅ-ćirā karnā, ćūṅ karnā, To demand why and wherefore; to question, to object; to wrangle, dispute: — ćūṅ-o-ćirā na karnā, To ask no questions, to remain silent: — ćūṅ-ki, adv. & conj. When that; seeing that, whereas, forasmuch as, inasmuch as, since.

    This could be a possible explanation.

    chuun-i- = the like of

    be-chiguun = without likeness

    So, in "do to chuun ke bhii bure hote haiN", if we take "chuun" as "God", then in Islamic religious thought pattern, two Gods are unacceptable as the faith is based on the oneness of God.

    A bit far fetched perhaps.

    Another article by Intizar Hussain where he mentions the same sentence, in the paragraph beginning with the sentence..

    .جوں جوں 14 اگست کی تاریخ قریب آ رہی تھی

    https://www.express.pk/story/280457/
    Qureshpor SaaHib, as the author of this text is no more, we must do our best to understand him. It is clear that this is his usage, with no scope for typographical error, since he has used the exact same phrase many many years after writing chiraGhoN ka dhuaN. I would have reasoned exactly like you have done if I had your learning in Urdu. So unless some other friend of the forum comes up with a more plausible explanation, I shall retain this meaning. Thanks a lot for your painstaking research.
    BTW, what is the name of the script in which Intizar Husain’s article is printed in Express?
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Gope SaaHib, I am not happy with the explanation I have provided but, as you have said, hopefully someone else may come up with a more plausable explanation.

    The style of printing that you have in your screen shot (نستعلیق) and that I posted the link to (نسخ) are both forms/fonts/styles of Urdu script. The former is the norm in the Subcontinent and the latter is used in rest of the world wherever the script is Arabic based. Once upon a time in Iran, Farsi was often written in نستعلیق where this style has its origins but I believe it is pretty rare there now.
     

    Gop

    Senior Member
    Tamil
    ^ Gope SaaHib, I am not happy with the explanation I have provided but, as you have said, hopefully someone else may come up with a more plausable explanation.

    The style of printing that you have in your screen shot (نستعلیق) and that I posted the link to (نسخ) are both forms/fonts/styles of Urdu script. The former is the norm in the Subcontinent and the latter is used in rest of the world wherever the script is Arabic based. Once upon a time in Iran, Farsi was often written in نستعلیق where this style has its origins but I believe it is pretty rare there now.
    Thanks for giving me the name of this style, nasx. I remember my Persian primers were in this script in the early 1960’s.
     
    Top